Noah’s Ark
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Who You Calling a Skeptic? 
Noah’s Ark is obviously bullshit.
How do you explain the fact that none of the predator animals ate the smaller animals. How do you explain there not being a disease spread through all of those animals packed in on one ship. What did he do about the animals needing to use the bathroom, how did he have enough food for all of them if they weren’t eating each other?
I agree. My point exactly.
Although, of course you know those whom are religious and study these things will obviously claim that it was the work of God that kept them alive and well.
Obviously there is no scientific explanation to prove any of these theories of the “Noah’s Ark”.
I’m not trying to bash on anybody’s beliefs but when it comes to these kinds of things you just have to be realistic.
Why would any of your above questions be difficult for God? After all he created the heavens and the earth along with all the living creatures and man. Everything that God does is with order. He told Noah specifically what the measurements for the ark were and Noah was to follow them. I’m quite confident that God had a plan worked out for Noah to dispose of the the animals waste…who knows when God told Noah the specifics on how to build the ark that could have included some type of opening that was beneath the ark for them to dispose of the animals waste. As far as disease and not eating eachother….like I said. God doesn’t put anything into action that isn’t without order.
Wasn’t Noah like, a thousand years old when he built the ark?
lol yeah and no 1 lives 2 c 1000 years old. hasnt people got btter things 2 do than sit with there head in books trying 2 suss out who nd were noah came from, i mean 4 god sakes geta life geeks.. mystery thats all it will ever b …
Ummm, it clearly states in the bible… AFTER the flood, that God limits human life to that of around 150 Years. So that easily explains the age thing.
In the Qur’an, Noah’s ark was big enough to carry 2 whales and 2 Rocs
That’s big.
how is that even boat shaped
I believe in the story as far fetched as it may be, but it definitely requires that people allow for divine intervention to keep everything in order. I mean the chances of EVERY animal surviving at sea for years ( 40 days and nights was how long it rained and flooded for, who knows how long it took the water to actually lower enough for land to be shown again, like i said it could have been years) including the pairs of insects etc is highly suspect. Plus how could all the waste be removed? If done by hand the people doing it would have had to be moving at inhuman speeds for the entire period of stay to control all the waste, factoring in that noah could have had a large family. THen there is the problem of getting enough food to every animal, and the RIGHT food for each animal too, and how to store the food for such a long period of time, i mean some animals are very picky and will only eat fresh, maybe only fruit etc, so then how could noah have gathered enough vegetation to sustain these picky eaters and bring it back to the ship in time for it to stay fresh, and then have it somehow perfectly stored inside….
Only divine intervention could have done these things. Maybe god put the animals into a hibernation, who knows. Either way too much evidence exists for me to doubt that god is real. E=MC^2, infinite energy can give way to infinate amounts of mass and creation.
noah ark for today is the church of god almighty,whoseever believe in our lord jesus christ will be saved not only to believe
but to accept him as lord and savior.no more flood to come but fire.pls read the bible.
god is an alien. you will soon see…immaculate conception, lights hovering above the where mary was giving birth? how do you explain what the Hindu Gods look like? definitely look like aliens to me…flying from the heavens in chariots n all. I think we’ve been duped into believing very strange things that may seem larger than life, well, because those that actually synthesized and hybridised us are much much smarter and advanced than we are. we are but children in the intergalactic kindergarten, and its high time we accept it. if you actually watch how the human organism acts, you will notice that we behave like defunct pre-pubescents! like junkies enslaved on heroin and ciggarettes(oil), bad temper tantrums(wars) and an attitude of being totally inconsiderate to your neighbours. The big picture looks very different if you’re willing to open your eyes and see it. question EVERYTHING, even the bible. It doesnt mean i dont believe in ‘God’, i just know that he/she/it is an alien from a very advanced civilisation far away from us. If you were created in a lab in a test tube, dont you think your ‘parents’ would wait to tell you when they knew you were ‘ready’ to accept that? imagine telling a kid he was made in a test tube, he would be traumatised for the rest of his life…ok thats all, i hope at least someone feels enlightened by this post…oh and try eating some magic mushrooms, it helps to see through all the grabage, almost like looking through a telescope into life haaha.
in my oppinion,it is not impossible. you just believe in god.when you believe automatically you’re in the right way. please dont blame god.if god didn’t create adam..i think right now you must be an ani..l. so with the Noah ark..it is the miracle of god..dont just know it as a legend..think use your brain…back to basic.tq
Well if you beileve that there is one god , and he is providing food to all the mankind , so god is able to stop the hunger also.
But my friend the problem is that , your thinking is right bcoz u r non-muslim , and you can araise such kind fo questions. But infact as a muslim we trust naoh’s and his true story , for more details you can just read quran . from there you will find the true story. Also keep in mind that quran is not written by you or me , or some human being.
Have a piece and mercy on them who beleive
yes i agree the quran wasn’t written by a human being…good point u are on the enlightened path.
how would you get every specie of animal on earth in one boat , 1. it would sink 2. you cant becuase not every specie lived where noah lived and 3. mostprbably some of those animals would have tried to kill him ANd 4 . how could he get an elephant, rhino , giraffe , hippopotamus e.c.t on a boat which i not made of metal and float? xP
Well this is some thing we cant imagine, Can you imagine that how sperm ejaculated into a woman’s vagina. and from that sperm God is creating Bones, Blood , and viens etc , then eyes, and then a beautiful skin etc.
Cant u think how does it happen and who is doing all this process. Its Nature , and Almighty is contrlling all these things.
Naoh was prophet , and this was the command of God to make a boat and put every pair human bieng , animals, etc in that boat. So fr God its possible to do what ever God wants. If you dont believe in One god, then that si different case. and there is no medicine and no answer for your question.
God bless those who bileve
Noah’s Ark is obviously bullshit.
How do you explain the fact that none of the predator animals ate the smaller animals. How do you explain there not being a disease spread through all of those animals packed in on one ship. What did he do about the animals needing to use the bathroom, how did he have enough food for all of them if they weren’t eating each other?
——-
With a comment like that I can tell you you have no spirtuality or connection to earth, animals or higher powers. The world is not as it appears. i feel sorry for people that have closed minds.
PS. I am not religous. Far from it.
Response to Joey about Noahs Ark being BS.
——-
With a comment like that I can tell you you have no spirtuality or connection to earth, animals or higher powers. The world is not as it appears. i feel sorry for people that have closed minds.
PS. I am not religous. Far from it.
its all meant to be very symbolic and not really a true depiction of reality. It has underlying meanings and shouldnt be taken literally. The people(?)or entities that wrote the bible had lots of time to figure out metaphors and such so to teach the learner but also to give them something to think about, in this way, while it is not being taken literally, the learner can interpret his own truth from it and still not distort the original meaning.
Comments submitted so far are very interesting. I like chris’s comments on June 10th in particular. Praises also go to Petresktonegerden Von Puderstrizendorfdenschlaggenbildenhaagenugenkaizerlof for the name alone.
Wow people…of course there isn’t any scientific explaination for many things that happened in the Bible. It’s not called ‘A Scientific Journey Through the Life Of Early Man’. It’s a book based on Faith. Faith requires no rational explainations…hence, why it is called Faith. Drop it and leave those who believe in peace.
Katie, I believe you are correct, science can’t explain many of the events in the Bible. But this post is about people who look for scientific proof to support their faith, not about faith itself. I realize that many comments are a little off-topic, but click on the link to read about the Christian archeology group. It’s in the first image of the rocky outcrop in Iran. Now there are some people mixing science and faith.
Pretty trippy comment thread, Rick! You really bring ’em out of the woodwork.
Most people’s knowledge of the ark comes from poorly researched cartoons and children’s book illustrations. Those who have studied the ark in the bible have observed that not only is it a viable vessel for the task it performed; it is actually the optimum dimensions, made from the most ideal materials available at the time. In other word – it could work.
Noah’s ark, far from fable, is an accurately recorded historical event.
For more info check out creation.com and their article noahs-ark-questions-and-answers
Fantastic answers for open minded skeptics.
Mr Adam, I visited the site. The Noah section relies heavily on John Woodmorappe’s book Noah’s Ark: a Feasibility Study, which has been rightfully criticized for its purposeful misuse of statistics. Throwing all science to the wind, let us keep his assumption that the ark carried 16,000 animals, from the smallest hummingbird to the largest dinosaur. He states that the median-sized animal was the size of a rat, and proceeds to calculate space and labor needs for 16,000 rat-sized animals. The median of 2, 3, and 100 is 3. What he ignores is the mean-sized animal in this menagerie, and therefore I feel justified in ignoring him, as should you.
I found this info regarding Woodmorappe’s study with about 10 seconds thought and a search engine. I admit I haven’t read his book, but I doubt many people have.
In my opinion Noah is a scientist. All the words about miracle is only about the story legacy from generation to generation. In his era, Noah save so many people. So, the era is thank him by call him a prophet, and so were all the appreciate to him finally bring a religious story for a thank to the Almighty God because God save people through the intelligent of Noah by his ark. So, my conclusion is, Human Intelligent is a miracle from God. (But of course some one who live with arrogant will refuse this idea)
Science and Religion is walk in the same track, just different language. Science is using a scientific language and Religion using a poetry/metaphor language. Thinking about God is about the way thinking about wisdom.
What we called science is the top of human thinking in the time…eg;no body will believe if we can fly hundreds year a go, an so on…
while religious is one thing far above it. It s contain matters “not yet” understanable for human being at this time. I believe sometime…when our abbility is develope enough…we will see this relationship between “human science” and “God science” or what we called religion.
Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies (Quote from -Ralph Waldo Emerson) and the Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge (Quote from Stephen Hawking).
When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic (Quote from Dresden James) and lies told often enough become the truth (Quote from Lenin).
Everyone has lied and most still lie to this day. Even Christians who are true with their path in life will admit that they have lied. No one on this earth is innocent of lying. We also know that even scientist have lied about their claims as well as government agencies that have supported them financially and with all of the deception in this world who are we suppose to trust to tell us the truth about the history of this world? Could you really believe science, science that is defined by people who are guilty of lying?
Why isn’t there more information on this? Why hasn’t it been dug up and examined for proof? Why is it that the government there have MT. Ararat sized off so we can’t investigate it even further? Maybe it is because they already know the answer. A quote from a Soviet dissident Yevgeny Yevtushenko, “When truth is replaced by silence, the silence is a lie.”
If your going to use the word skeptic to define anyone then you have to show proof of your negative or positive claims.
Lets go to the basics of a skeptic and define what a skeptic is. A skeptic is a person who is neutral. In this case a skeptic doesn’t believe that god is real nor does he believe that god isn’t real. A skeptic will remain neutral until the skeptic has solid proof to lead the skeptic ether way.
The definition of a cynic is a person who does nothing else but find faults. I’ve seen cynics go as far as aggressively attacking you to push the faults they have found on you. This is also a good example of immaturity. Let me take the heat off of the non-believers. A cynic can be on ether side of the coin. A believer who spouts out faults to the none believer and the non believer who spouts out faults to the believer. In ether case they both are immature, negative and sometimes aggressive about proving the point of their faults. Also if a person who claims to be a christian demonstrates this kind of behavior (hate and aggressive anger) is a liar. The bible defines what a sin is and a sin is anything that hurts another person.
The bible teaches you how to love other people and this love you feel for other people compels you to help other people who you see can use some help and when you can’t help them then the christian gives it to god by praying for them and asking god to help them. They make this decision without announcing it. By announcing it they could be citing that you are a sinner and it isn’t their place to judge others, ’cause from ones mind this judgment is harming another person. This judgment is the judge placing them selves above those they are judging.
This is truly hard to explain without going on about it forever. Speaking metaphorically I’m pushing a needle into a piece of iron. I’m not even making a dent in that iron plate. All I’m doing is scratching the surface.
OK, Paul, I want everyone to be able to speak freely at my blog, so have at it.
Your first comment, which I thinks states that Noah’s Ark is real and the Turkish government purposefully hinders further study, is a common complaint. I tend to doubt it, since Mt Ararat is a top tourist site, and open to all since 2001. Visit Anatolian Adventures, hire a guide, and go there on your next vacation.
Your second comment is just preachy. At least Mr Adam on June 18th supported his argument with footnotes. You, not so much.
Also, don’t redefine the word skeptic. Nobody can prove a negative, as you well know. If you’re asking people to back their claims with something substantial, then I agree.
Quote Rick: “Your first comment, which I thinks states that Noah’s Ark is real and the Turkish government purposefully hinders further study, is a common complaint. I tend to doubt it, since Mt Ararat is a top tourist site, and open to all since at least 2001.”
This is a poor argument simply ’cause on all tourist places you have designated locations and paths they follow for one reason and one reason only, safety. One thing you didn’t mention in your statement is these tourist trips are permitted by the military. Why would the military govern a tourist attraction? Proof?
This mystery would be solved if the defense department and NASA would released the satellite imagery and surveillance photographs that have been taken over the last 50 years.
There is allot of people in this world who try to use the theory of evolution to prove that god isn’t real. This is a negative because the theory of evolution is just that, a theory, a theory that has circumstantial evidence and lies to support it.
http://www.chabad.org/parshah/default_cdo/aid/9168/jewish/Noach.htm
Furthermore,
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/1099
So Paul, welcome back. I looked at your link, which gives information supporting your position. Your link states that the Ararat Anomaly has never been investigated. I can buy that. You point out that visiting the mountain is not the same as investigating the anomaly. So I am going to leave it there, because I don’t really have an explanation for Turkey not letting the curious just walk up and check it out. All they say is that it’s a military thing. But suspicions and hunches that the anomaly is the ark is not the same as proof, so I stick with my skepticism for now.
I have more for you but there is a problem with it. There isn’t any difference about it then what people have provided about evolution. This problem is it is all circumstantial evidence. If this evidence is something you want to see I can provide it but considering that your looking for 100% proof of it’s existence on MT. Ararat. I doubt that anything I show you will prove to you that it is there.
My position is this, why has the Turkish military put this area under siege and why hasn’t the Defense Department and NASA released more footage of the “anomaly” that they have been taking satellite images of and surveillance photographs of for the last 50 years?
I have a speculation as to why this is. It is something I posted earlier in another comment. It is a quote from a Soviet dissident Yevgeny Yevtushenko, “When truth is replaced by silence, the silence is a lie.”
Don’t you think they would be more revealing about what is in the area in question to um, put a stop to all the speculation that it is Noah’s Ark? What is obvious is they are trying to hide something. As long as they continue to hide whatever is there then we’ll never know what the “anomaly” is.
I have no doubt in my mind that it is Noah’s Ark.
————————————————————
I edited your comment for content. I allow a lot of stuff, but draw the line with trying to convert people. There’s been a lot of bible crosstalk, which I figure is expected with this post. But you proselytize anymore and I’ll put you on my spam list. I won’t have it.
This isn’t any different then the defense department, NASA, and the Turkish military. The whole point of proving the existence of Noah’s Ark is to prove the existence of our dad, GOD.
There are stories, documentaries and books that have been written of explorers who have seen and touched the ark and some of these records and books go back to 1200 AD.
Rather interesting that a piece of hand hued wood that Fernand Navarra chopped out of the ice in 1950 has been tested and of course it isn’t considered proof because some scientist have claimed fraud but yet when Fernand took pieces of it to other places to be tested. It was dated to be 5000 years old and it was labeled as a type of wood that doesn’t even grow in turkey. Other places he took pieces of the wood to blew it off and wouldn’t test it at all.
I bet you blow this off to. You wouldn’t be the first to blow off eye witness accounts of the ark that date all the way back to 1200AD. Eye witness Accounts that have consistency in the description of the ark.
Yes, first the defense dept., NASA and the Turkish military, now my blog. I’m just another big thumb, holding back knowledge. Generally speaking I do try to take things with a grain of salt. You take this subject much more seriously than I do, so like I said on 6/24, you backed your argument nicely with some references to current research. Well done. Best wishes proving the existence of GOD.
so the story was a little far fetched… but still…its called a miracle people…thats what god does. he works miralces. he’s god. he can do that. and the age thing? after noah’s ark, god limited human age to something like 150 or something…so really. Noah’s ark was one big miracle. do you actually think that a flood was so huge that it could wipe out the entire earth? yeah its called a miracle. read the bible.
So Mauna, sorry for not responding to your comment right away. The story of Noah’s Ark is interesting and entertaining. However this post was meant to be about the search for the ark. The real deal, an actual wooden boat on Mt Ararat. What do you think? It’s OK if you don’t have an opinion.
Noah’s ark is real. We just don’t know EXACTLY where is it now. Some ask for hard evidence (seen, touched, tested, tasted, etc) in order to believe. Some just have faith to believe. There is only one issue here, for all parties, whether they’re from religious groups, skeptics, scientist, etc., which is to believe or not to believe. My friends, if there is a hard evidence found proving the ark’s existence but you CHOOSE to disbelieve, you will always disrepute its existence. I believe in Noah’s ark and the events that caused it to be built and i believe in God too because i choose to believe. have a nice day.
is this bullshit, is the bible fake, is God? Check out: http://www.answering-islam.org/Hoaxes/joshua2.html
it proves it’s all good, and not bullshit, because the scientists are now exploring things the bible have told us all the time. Have you ever heard about the bibel codes, check them out
I didnt even really hear the whole story on this did they like unearth it????? Why wouldnt they?
I never think that the Ancient is always about primitive. I believe there is an Era where human intelligent is more highly Modern than today. Even it really possible the Super Modern Era is happen far before the (modern) human evolution..
Do you realize the Earth had been destroy and rebuild and destroy and rebuild repeatedly again and again? There are so many ancient Megastructure that make us say “How Come???”. And my conclusion is : all the Doomsday is always happen when human arrive to the Modern Age of the each era..
So, the Modern Era that happen today is not the first time on Earth. Creation and Annihilation is some kind of routines journey of the Universe..
I always have thought that the words of “from dust to dust” that written in the Bible is not a bullshit. The Doomsday is about the heat. The Super Heat that make the words of “from dust to dust” is become reality. The Super Heat that make all the metal melt, only a few stone who left for the next mystery (example : pyramid, stonehenge, etc..)
The fact is not only pollution that make the Earth warm (Global Warming), but the Earth is also warm with naturally, I may prove this by the statement of Ice Age. What happen with Ice Age? The fact is the Ice Age is disappear even far before the era of today industrial. But sure we can’t denied that the pollution is making the Doomsday come millions times faster than it should be..
So what happen with Ice Age? I used to thought that the Earth is standing on two rotation (to the Sun). The first rotation is the rotation that make The Night and Day, and the second rotation who walking very slow, even too slow that make no one notice about it, is the elliptical rotation that make the Ice Age and the Doomsday. Ice Age is happen when the position of the Earth is in the Far point of the Sun, and the Doomsday is happen when the Earth is in the Nearest point of the Sun. So, Creation and Annihilation does repeat. But I guess scientist is came out with brand new idea about the X Planet (The Nibiru Planet). Well, that could also become the other possibility..
Hey guys if some of you still doubt about the existence of GOD, my blog might could give you the answer of “the fact thing about GOD”..
Visit http://www.san9saka.blogspot.com/, well it’s not an English blog, but you can click on the translation button at the under of the music Playlist..
Enjoy. GOD bless..
:)
um, God is real.He isn’t an alien and I am not a product of a test tube. I am only 10 and I understand the Word of God. If He can create the Heavens and stars, then He can surely keep a boat full of animals fed, safe, and afloat. I will pray for you to learn and accept the truth.
close minded people assume the animals were fully grown.
Really people all you have to do is open the Bible. Start in Genesis Chapter one verse one. In the begining God said let their be light. All God did was speak and it was done. He then made the heavens and the earth, the stars, the seas, the sea creatures, the land animals, and then Man. Then he rested on the 7th day. When Man brought corruption and sin into the world we were all condemed. Sin got so bad that is when God went to Noah and told him to build the Ark. By the measurments you could see that the ark was the size of about 1 1/2 football field, it was 4 stories high. Now Noah did have to collect all the animals. God sent the animals to Noah, and you have to understand the species thing. not all kinds of dogs were there at the Ark, but most domesticated dogs are a breed of wolf, and the cats are a breed of lion or tiger. so one reprisentation for the species. if you look at it that way it is not so out there. Now for the monkey wrench. Were their Dinosaurs thier? Absolutley!!! God made all creatures by the end of the 6th day. Some will say how could a dino fit on the Ark. Well adolesent dinos could. the average dino is or was the size of a pony. we just focus on the really big ones. But what this all boils down to is that God also told Noah to get people on the Ark and they didnt want anything to do with Noah or God. Just like today. In a world filled with sin, hate, war, corruption, and DEATH. We are being told to get on the boat again. Christ is our boat. He is our Salvation, our Life Line. Dont pass it up. Get on abourd, choose Jesus Christ and everlasting life. God Promised to never send a Flood again but sin in this world is the water that is going to drown us. But we have the choice to get on the boat.
people just read the bible and stop saying things about noah ark!God did everything in the ark because he is powerful and almighty!so stop saying things about God!
Guys Noah obviously took babies with him on the ark ! Eat less, sleep alot more, the predators won’t eat the herbivors, MUCH less poop etc etc. Think about it, Noah was pretty old when he built the ark, he was probably smart enough to realise you should take babies with. Isn’t it obvious?? Oh and also, reduces the size of the boat needed doesn’t it ?
But yeah it’s obviously rubbish, has to be…
ITS HEART BREAKING TO KNOW THAT SO MANY PEOPLE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD. HE GIVES YOU LIFE AND THIS IS HOW WE ALL REPAY HIM?? PEOPLE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT WE ALL ARE GOING TO DIE. AND WHEN WE DIE YOU THINK WERE GOING TO JUST LAY THERE SIX FEET UNDER GROWN?? IN THE BIBLE IT STATES THAT JESUS IS COMING AND TO TAKE HIS PEOPLE HOME!!!!!! DO PEOPLE EVEN KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE STANDS FOR?? IT STANDS FOR (B)ASIC (I)INSTRUCTIONS (B)EFORE (L)EAVING (E)ARTH.. SO ALL THE NONESENCE THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT DINOSAURS, WHY DOESNT IT SAY ANYTHING IN THE BIBLE??? I MEAN COME ON PEOLE DO YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT DINOSAURS BEFORE YOU DIE? WHEN PEOPLE DIE AND FIND OUT WHERE THEY ENDED, THERE ALL GOING TO BE VERY REGRETFULL ON HOW THEY LIVED THERE LIVES… IF THEY DONT MAKE IT..
FOR THOSE WHO DO THE LORDS WORK, DONT STOP
MAY HE BLESS YOU
FOR THOSE WHO DONT BELIEVE IN HIM
MAKE A CHANGE
BECAUSE OUR TIME IS RUNNING OUT
I cant understand how someone doesnt believe in GOD!Look at the world,life,birth of a child,beautiful animals.All the pain that surounds us us from sin.Live your life w/lots of love and faith,always give never take,always help ones in need,and realize how blessed you are because one day itl be too late.
Bullshit.
I never believed in Noah’s Ark, not that I am saying people aren’t entitled to their own opinion because they absolutely are, but it’s bullshit.
Sure, ships buried and found under the earth for an amount of time is obviously possible, but that doesn’t mean that any of these ships are Noah’s ark.
Even if Noah’s ark existed, it would have decayed by now, right? Just saying..
I see all of your points. I understand where you are coming from. Here is something to think about… I cannot see your brain, smell your brain, hear your brain, or even touch your brain (unless you have brain surgery in which you allow me too), but i know that its there and I can see it’s effects (you are alive). God works the same way, he’s there but you can’t see him, smell him, hear him, or touch him but you know he’s there because you can feel it in your heart. When you hear the first cry of a newborn and see it open it’s eyes for the first time or see a cascading white waterfall or see a cancer patient who has finally overcome cancer or make it to the top of a mountain and look out over a valley and realize that you are very small, it’s hard not to believe there is someone up there whose watching out for us, someone who can see more of the big picture than we can. Considering the alien theory,if you can believe in aliens… you can believe in God.
Someone who:
aliens = evolution for me,
and evolution=science,
& I believe in science…
just to be honest.. but I respect your faith.
the bigger the lie the more people will believe it. Woo Hoo…”it was written in the Bible so it must be true”….give me an effin’ break. After all these years most people are still don’t have the huevos to stand up and say that stories like these are ridiculous. Religion, whether Greek, Norse, Christian, Muslim, et al was created to explain things and to control the masses. Nothing more. When I do good I feel good, when I do bad I feel bad…..that’s my religion.
Thank you, Marc
-earthykinded
i believe in noah ark because im the one on that ship
I do not understand why some people can’t believe this. Would you believe if someone told you that the inspired words of God (The Bible) told you that the Earth we live on is actually round? Way before it was ever discovered.Would you believe that the Bible actually explains the hydraulic cycle way before it was ever discovered? Would you believe that the Bible actually tells you that the Earth is hung in the heavens way before it was actually discovered? Would you believe that the Bible actually tells you that every single star in the heavens is different from one another and are too numerous to count way before it was ever discovered? What about prophecy in the Bible? I will not even go into that, because obviously you would not understand because you don’t read the Bible. Have you ever thought to wonder why of all the books ever written even by our worlds most famous authors, that the Bible is the all time best seller? How would the authors of the Bible know that there will be a one world government, which we are on the brink of today? What about them already placing “chips” into humans with all of that persons information encoded in that chip? Read Revelation or http://www.endtimesministry.com What about the number of original manuscripts that we have today? Check the numbers on that and see what other originals that we have today. The next closest to the Bible is Homer’s “Iliad” and it is not even close. What about some of the founding fathers of science and who set the stage for what we know today? What was their view on God? If the Bible wasnt true, how would it have survived through all of these years if it were totally false? Someone would have definitely crushed its legitamacy. If the resurrection was false, wouldn’t the Bible been shot down? Check the dates of Christ’s crucifixtion and the dates of the New Testament. There were actually people who were alive at both that could have surely denounced the legitamacy of it, but yet it is still widely circulated today? What about the resurrection account? They say that it was stolen? Do some research on the training and discipline of the Roman soldier in that era and draw your conclusions. They said that the sodiers hid it? What sense would that have made? The Romans wanted Him dead for the claims that He made. Why would they have wanted to remove His body when that would have justified the resurrection that He foretold? When people saw the body gone they were on fire for Him. If the Romans saw this reaction don’t you think they would have produced His body to shut this up? There is only one reason that the Bible is so accurate and is widely in circulation today and that is because it is the inspired word of God and sadly one day you will see this, but then it will be to late! There are hundreds more explanations and prophecies in the Bible and I encourage you to read it with your so called open minds. It is like Lee Strobel (former atheist) said, “It takes more faith to be an atheist than to be a Christian” simply put. Have you examined the numerical possibilities for the complex human cell and all of its internal structures as well as a single strand of human DNA to just magically come into existence? Don’t even talk about the human eye, which is way more complicated than todays digital camera. I guess the camera just “magically” happened out of nowhere too.
http://www.endtime.com
The account of Noah’s ark is true. The flood was globally universal. The boat was real, the animals were real, and the account in Genesis is the only account of truth. The idea that we do not have absolute proof, or a scientific explanation to support the fact of the flood is irrelevant. It is simply a matter of Faith in God and in His Word.
It is unexplainable. It’s all God creature. Nobodies can refuses God Destiny. For all we are as human, We’ll just have to wait until the judgement day is come. at the end of the world. we’re gonna be shown that is the thruth of what we’ve been doubts about God. InsyaAllah someday. Just believe God.
It didnt happen Noahs Ark is a religous myth with no basis in reality
The amount of moisture in the air would have collapsed Noahs (and his fams) lungs-
There is absolutely no evidence of a world wide flood- it’s that simple.
Google’The Epic of Gilgamesh’ and the ‘Sumerians’- as alot of Christianity the story of Noah was stolen from earlier accounts.
Hahahahahaha!! Are you joking? This “junk” doesn’t even remotely compare to the Bible. I bet you are a huge Lord of the Rings fan to. For your eternal sake google Randall Niles or Lee Strobel. Just keep in mind, one day your eyes WILL close in death and it will all hit you like a ton of bricks. Your death will be in total fear and chaos. Really weigh the evidence in all arenas for your sake. One man said “what if when you die all of your beliefs in Christianity ain’t true?” The man replied “I would have led a very peaceful, loving, and moral life while I was here on Earth”, now let me ask you a question “What if when you die YOU find out that what pursued you so hard and what you totally denounced IS true?” The atheist man had no reply. Think about it my brothers and sisters…really think about it. Peace and love!!
Alright, everybody settle down. Two things. First, a person can entertain an idea without embracing it. Second, the Epic of Gilgamesh and the account of Noah in the Book of Genesis compare quite nicely. Please read a comparison of the two at Religious Tolerance. Knowing that the Gilgamesh story is older, or that the flood story was popular before Genesis was written, won’t hurt anyone.
I just came accoss your discussion. Very enlightening to see so many different views and opinions. It’s amazing how we all have faith in something and are so bound by it. Whether it be God or Monkeys. I am a christian or christ follower. Let me encourage those of you who do not believe in the stories of the bible to look into them more further. Science is not a good argument for disputing God. Science is step by step process to test a theory. Science has proven existance and proven Biblical events such as the flood, the ark, and the parting of the red sea. I would encourage all of us believers and non to have an open mind. I would encourage the believers to have more of an open mind because God encourages us to love everyone even when our faith is challenged. Thank you for having this blog and giving me a great start of beautiful Friday.
god real or not real that is the question? what is the meaning of life? wyh are we here? these three question have been asked since the dawn of man. we turn to the bible for the anwers but we did not find them. we look to the heavens and earth. through space. But we never find the anwer. What i am saying is we humans have been looking since we could think. maybe we are looking in the wroung place. we look to god or gods but never see anything. we look at earth we find something but close mineded people say that we should not say it to the world. Because they want to belive that god is almigted. god needs to be poven once and for all. to many wars about my god is real and your god is not. we act like child like the moto say boy don’t grow up their toy just get bigger. all i am saying is find out if your god is fucking before you started to shove it down people’s neck.
Wish you guys are in the middle east right now!Show them something.that you are more reliable than God. Tell them whom to trust.God or humans? Condeming the Unseen One is easy.tell the Hezbollah, Taliban face to face. You might think otherwise about the exixtence of God.
Yes, Dewitz. Well spoken. Believe in god or I’ll kick your ass. Or else I’ll get my two friends Hezbollah and Taliban to do it for me. Either way, I think we’ll all convert by morning. Who wouldn’t?
You all have to realize that God does not work with sciences. He works with miracles. In the time of Noah, there was a covering over the earth that protected humans from the sun’s powerful UV rays. This made it possible for people to grow up to ages like 900 or so. It says in the Bible, “6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood.” – Genesis 7:6-7. Noah spent almost 500 years of his life building the Ark which God had commanded him to build because the earth had become filled with evil and Noah and his family were the only “righteous: men and women left. In that 500 years he spent building, you’d think he would gather enough food for the animals. As for the bathroom situation, the floor was the bathroom. And it most likely stunk. Horribly. God created peace between the animals during this time so that they wouldn’t eat each other. Also, no where in the Bible does it say that disease didn’t spread during this time. It very likely could have. But God protected them from death. Because He has the power to do that, He’s not just some alien creature from deep space, He is the God of Heaven above, and Earth below, He is the controller of All things, great and minuscule. If he can create and the Sun in one day, I’m pretty sure that he could keep some animals from eating each other for 40 days. Now this is what reality is…God’s mercy from wiping out us pathetic humans. It’s jaw dropping, really.
OK. I’ve sort of held back with my own feelings for awhile, I tend to be nice or at least try to be nice, but I’m done with that.
Many religious people are in the habit of being either rude or self-important. The comments from Justin about faith in monkeys, Dewitz with his threats, and now this one. Anne, I read your comments and I can hear your voice; it’s all breathy-like. Try it. Read this in Marilyn Monroe’s voice: “As for the bathroom situation, the floor was the bathroom. And it most likely stunk. Horribly.” That’s how your condescending voice sounds.
This post is about people trying to prove that Noah’s Ark is on Mt Ararat. Not about Christianity, not about faith. Just people who think the ark is on Mt Ararat. What do you think about
that? What do you think about the ark on Mt Ararat? That’s the topic. That’s the topic.
OK Rick, to your point. Genesis says the ark rested in the mountains of Ararat. That leaves a wide area to look. It could still be there somewhere. If I remember correctly, Josephus the 1st century historian said the ark was in Armenia and the locals made money selling pieces to visitors.
As far as evidence of a world wide flood, we would have to find millions of animals & plants buried under layers of rock all over the world… wait…
Thanks, otherguy. If the account in Genesis is historic, and not a parable, then it’s going to take a lot of luck to find wood that old. As you know it tends to rot. There are certainly plenty of people out there looking for it. Thanks for the comments.
why this story is so like the last tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh?
while these tablets are written hundred years before the old testament
its bullshit
just an epic like all other epics
Why is the last tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh so like the story of Noah? Genesis is not written as an “Epic”, it is written as straight forward history, although with supernatural events. Did Moses just write down the oral history that already existed or did he make something up based on others myths. You’d think he would have borrowed from the Egyptians rather than the Sumerians, but the Genesis account stands on its own.
Check out this guy’s theory on the origins of the Genesis accounts. http://www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp
Its just a theory, but interesting.
we’re not talking about religion here, were talking about the truth,it was written in the bible ” But for God NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE” to those who just can’t believe the reality of God’s wonders then be in your side, believe what you strongly believe, but as for me and to those who believe the truth of Gods word, we have this faith that innocence and ignorance cannot really, really understand.God’s word isn’t just a fairytale it is the truth hidden behind human knowledge. what it takes to uncover it? Know Jesus………………………………………………..
about the mystery of our existence, most people were used to be coined as “to-see-is-to-believe” mind you friends, we came into this earth planned and we were NOT just AN ACCIDENT as why we were here.
For me, there’s nothing impossible with GOD!!!
That’s it!!
Only bullshits are those who didn’t believe in all creations of GOD!!!
Sorry for the word but it is true!!
OK, Marvin Monarba and Jayson. People have called b.s. on the Book of Genesis. I personally think they are out of line, and I think you have a point. The Epic of Gilgamesh is considered authentic, but the account in Genesis is considered inauthentic? Why? They tell different versions of the same story.
Why is one considered cool and one considered uncool? I think it’s because the second one is connected to a current religion.
this is not a lie there was no disease spread to animals because simply if just think about it even if there is god will cure them he created the humans and animals and you wonder no disease , the ark is real but i don’t know if this is the real thing or no the scientist will prove that , this is no myth god exists a lot of people don’t believe i guess you should rethink about it before it’s too late before you die and you would say i wish i was dirt before i didn’t believe in god and in Islam
These comments make me wish god had included something about punctuation in those commandments. I’m sure it must be possible to be a fundamentalist Christian and have a good command of written English.
God is all powerful . . . except He needs some old man and his sons to build an ark to save all the earth’s animals. Hey, if God can create all those animals in one day, He can save the animals too, and wouldn’t need the help of some old man. So all the anomalies of predators living peacefully with prey, squeezing two of every known species into an ark of limited size, feeding them all for a month, spreading them out across the globe (and across vast oceans to isolated continents). . . if you’re going to use “God’s will” as an excuse for stuff you can’t explain scientifically, then you’ve already lost the argument.
Premise: God is all powerful. Conclusion: God can do it anyway He wants.
Tim think about this. You are doubting the Genesis account of Noah and the Flood, because that’s not how you would do it if you were all powerful. That’s like me deciding I would never have elected Martin Van Buren as President, so the history books must be wrong. Instead I have to evaluate my source of information. Wikipedia? maybe not. A copy of the Congressional Record from the Library of Congress? More likely. Is Genesis a reliable history book? I believe so, but not just on faith. It stands up to study and analysis. Its called Biblical Apologetics. Lot’s of good material out there. Read Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel, Ken Hamm.
Remain skeptical!
Hey otherguy, welcome back. Your comments forced me to look into this further.
I checked out your link at trueorigin.org, and it was interesting, as you say. The Tablet Theory doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Curt Sewell writes,
“There is no real technical basis for not believing the Bible as it was written. Nowhere does the Biblical text mention anything that implies evolution, nor is there any Biblical incident that’s been proven definitely wrong. The only reason to doubt the clear text of the Bible is an attempt to compromise with secularism, and its rejection of God.” Elsewhere he says, “Why did so many theologians become critical of Biblical truth? Do they have any scientific basis for their doubts? Not really.”
At this point I know I’m not reading a scholarly essay. You will admit this isn’t scientific criticism. “Not really.” That’s an argument? Also, there is a technical basis to doubt the account in Genesis. In fact, several. Here’s one: there’s not enough water on the planet to cover the earth, even if you use the words “cover” and “all the high hills under heaven” metaphorically. Here’s another: creation in 6 days or 13 billion years? Give me just a small break if you insist on 6 days.
“…Nor is there any Biblical incident that’s been proven definitely wrong.” Is that so?
His theory is that the Book of Genesis was written on clay tablets by none other than God, Adam, Noah, Japheth Shem & Ham, etc., etc.
Curt Sewell is writing from pure conjecture. Who needs sources when you have imagination?
Secondly, you say you think Genesis is a reliable history book. Perhaps so. Most theologians start dating events with relative accuracy around the time of Abram, circa 2000 B.C. Everything prior is considered myth, allegory, etc. As far as I know, there’s no historical reference to anything prior to Abram outside of the Bible, except for documents like the Epic of Gilgamesh. I’m not even sure why I’m arguing this. It’s been firmly established and widely accepted already.
Well Rick, that’s a lot to think about. I will concede to “widely accepted”, but only for past few decades. But “firmly established”, I don’t think so. Like you said, no accurate dating prior to Abraham except the Bible. So how does lack of hard facts “firmly establish” anything? I am a skeptic.
So is Genesis real history or allegory and myth? Where did Genesis come from? The Bible as whole contains many literary forms. There is history, poetry, parables, statistics, prophecy, teachings and laws. I think it is pretty obvious from the straightforward reading which is what. There is lots of poetry with allegory in the Psalms and history from Genesis to Nehemiah., where did Moses get his info? Did he make it up from the general myths of the time (Gilgamesh)? Did the Hebrews already have these tablets that their ancestors had scribed over the centuries, starting with the first one given by God? (Idle speculation, unless we find one) Did he compile the oral traditions of the Hebrews? According to the genealogy records Shem the son of Noah was still alive during the life of Abraham and his son Isaac. So the “widely accepted” historical date for Abraham overlaps with at least one Flood eyewitness.
I just don’t think we can assign what is clearly written as history to allegory just because it doesn’t fit with what we understand about the world. It is putting human wisdom above God’s. Not a good thing. In the past, skeptics’ challenges that made sense at the time proved to be false. Only the Bible had record of the Hittite people or the city of Nineveh (where Jonah preached after being spewed out by the fish). Archeology has since proven the skeptics wrong. Or in 2 Peter the destruction of elements is prophesied and the skeptics of the 19th century pointed out that “elements” cannot be destroyed. However, with nuclear physics of the 20th century that argument has fallen out of use.
Our human wisdom decides there is not enough water to cover the mountains, but that is making assumptions. Were the mountains of Noah’s day as high as today? Were the ocean trenches as deep? After all, geologists tell us the continental plates are moving and pushing the mountains up and widening the ocean floor. Just because we can measure the rate of movement today does not directly imply the speed of the past. The Bible says the world was destroyed. The ripping apart of the continents, flooded with miles of sediment and then the catastrophic uplifting of the mountains and pushing out of the ocean floor would certainly drain the land and leave many of the geological features we find. No eyewitness except what was written in Genesis.
6 days of creation. Why not? Our wisdom again? Like I started out my previous post: “Premise: God is all powerful. Conclusion: God can do it anyway He wants.” A few years ago I was at our State Fair and found myself sharing a table with some Wiccans. (you meet the most interesting people at the Fair). They were talking all metaphysical so I challenged them with this. “If God is all powerful, he could have just 2 seconds ago created me, you, all the people, the world, the universe, including all our memories of the past and we wouldn’t know any different. Unless, He told us different.” That is what I believe the Bible is. God Word to us. Explains where we came from, the problems of Sin, and the ultimate Solution. Faith yes, blind faith? No. The evidence is here. It doesn’t take sides. We just need to see it in light of what God has told us. Keep being skeptical.
First of all. Noah’s Ark was three stories high, with rooms inside of the Ark, as the Bible says. There were plenty of rooms to separate each kind of animal. Secondly, there was food for the animals as well as for the humans. If an animal is full it will not kill another animal. Thirdly, God locked the door. God made the animals. Why could he NOT communicate with them?
Otherguy- we CAN assign what is clearly written as history to allegory just because it doesn’t fit with what we understand about the world. Also, it is firmly established and widely accepted. It is. Maybe not by you, or anyone else who uses “God is all-powerful” to explain what doesn’t fit. Check out The Bible Unearthed. Please read this link. It supports/explains/confirms the mainstream scholarly view of archeology in ancient Israel/Palestine.
I believe it is not Religion that we must be seeking, or the proof, I think it is we must find ourself to find truth.Of course i believe there is a God. And I recognize him as Jesus Christ. I go to church on sundays and call him father, its not that hard. He is real. I think most chistians are stuck in wanting to see miracles. Like god actually coming down on a chariot. But as i have seen proof that God rather manipulates the earth. Example: the 10 plagues of Egypt. 1 volcanic eruption caused all kinds of disasters targeted at one area, but with Gods element of being Mysterious he took the first born. Look on both sides of the egyptians and christians. The proof is in the science. God bless.
Ok people, think of things in a bible since.there was no south america, north america or canada only the land of africa an such. and there is prof that that whole area was flooded. i think the bible said it best, if you have the faith the size of a mustared seed then you can move mountains. or God’s will be done.
you guys are all fighting about the wrong things, 1 gilgamesh and Noah are the same in one. look up english translations. Just like everyone seems to get this one wrong too. Thou shalt not kill eeerrrr wrong answer, when translated right it states Thou shalt not murder. It is simple human error that some things are done wrong in the bible. Plus it kinda helps when you had the roman translation, which some things were taken out because the ceser did not agree or like them. Then the greek translated it, samething with them. then king James, again same thing. And i belive it was 1348 when the meeting of niceacea happend and books of the bible were taken out not to be taught. Because the Catholic Church did not agree with some of the text. I am a unitarion because of this, but there is a god he had a son Named Jesus not Christ he was called the christ. He died for our sins. But belive what you want, you will see. You are stupidly Questioning God.
Hey Rick. I checked out the link. Of course I didn’t think much of it. The entry says the “Main Stream” scholars started their work with the assumption the Bible is “ not the unquestioned narrative framework into which every archaeological find must be fit.”, but it seems to me they went to the extreme the other way. The assumption is that all of the Bible was made up in the 7th century BC, with out any reason other than the Bible can’t be true. Of course this is just the Wikipedia summary not the whole book, but the arguments presented, seem weak to me. For example, the claim that the account of Joseph being sold to traders on camels is made up because the authors contend that camel caravans would have rare at the traditional time of Joseph. Weak. The book is 8-9 years old. More archeological finds may cause revisions. They contend that Jerusalem was just a small village at the time of David, therefore the whole story of David & Solomon are myth. However, there has been several archeological finds pointing to David’s palace in Jerusalem. And just last week there was reported they have found massive stone works in Jerusalem that date back to the time of Abraham. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8235041.stm Archeological time lines are tricky. Check out this link about the problems with the Egyptian timeline vs Assyrian vs the Bible. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/utp/how-do-we-know-what-happened
But, back to Noah’s Ark. I found this link that has a summary of many eyewitness accounts of the 19th & 20th centuries. http://www.parentcompany.com/search_for_noahs_ark/sfna2.htm No references, but I’ve heard of some of these before, so it would be a good source to do further research. Here’s another link that’s pretty persuasive. Its always puzzled me that the various eyewitness accounts keep finding the Ark at different spots on Mt. Ararat. They propose that the Ark has broken into 3 pieces. And they have pictures! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8235041.stm Somebody needs to get on the Mountain!
Keep being skeptical.
What about this guy that built the ark according to the dimensions in the Bible?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269090,00.html
And I love the comment from 10 year old gabby99 “um, God is real.He isn’t an alien and I am not a product of a test tube. I am only 10 and I understand the Word of God. If He can create the Heavens and stars, then He can surely keep a boat full of animals fed, safe, and afloat. I will pray for you to learn and accept the truth”
I have to thank some of these commentators!!! You really made me laugh. I was looking for material to use for my teen Bible Study class this week, something to entertain them, and the alien story did just the trick. Thank you. I KNOW the people’s laughter who were left outside the Ark as God closed it, trailed off to chuckles, smirks, then silence before screams and banging on the door were the only thing heard before the Thunder drowned them out.( No play on words) As far as miracles like that happening….well I think it was easier for God to save the entire human and animal race on an Ark than it was for Him to take a life like mine and make me a worshiper which is what I am. So although I could never prove Noahs Ark and a global flood to you, I am a living, breathing testimony that God can perform miracles and you could NEVER refute that….but please try so I can have some material for next weeks lesson.
Also just too add, the TRUTH is that if God is God, and He spun the worlds into existence, He could have saved Noah, his family, and those animals in the back of a flat-bed truck reminiscent of Chitty Chitty Bang- Bang. But the Ark was a picture of Christ and how God did the impossible to save the world…left His throne in the sky to come down and save an undeserving people….His creation…those whom He loved. Let’s not forget, it did not please our God to destroy His creation:Genesis 6:6 said God was grieved that He had made man on the earth because of their wickedness, and His heart was filled with pain. Thats the God I want to serve. I cannot imagine an alien coming down and giving his life for a traitor nation…or world for that matter. I want to end by some of the most simple but profound words that are in a song by Caedmon’s Call…For You so loved the unlovable, That you gave the ineffable, that who so believes the UNBELIEVABLE will gain the unattainable. I chose to believe the unbelievable to gain that which I could never attain on my own: Eternal Life. ” For without Faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.”
OK, Bev, settle down. If you want to discuss Noah’s Ark with your teen discussion group, you can go about it in two ways that I think are pretty good. I suggest following otherguy’s links from his comments on Sept. 2nd, and again on Sept. 25th, where you get a good roundup of studies that confirm the Christian perspective. If, on the other hand, you want to look at it from a scientific approach, you should read the synopsis of The Bible Unearthed, which I mentioned in my comments on Sept. 16th. As otherguy says, “Stay skeptical.”
this is God , stop all this foolishness and settle down or i’ll smite thee
Ummm… I saw a bunch of comments here, and a lot of them led to whether there is a God or not. Yesterday, in my Worldview Class, we learned that a lot of Secular Humanists like to say that we Christians are all religious and stuff, and we just try to make ourselves feel good. I came up with the point that if they say there is no God, they just want to make themselves feel good. They think it is a burden to have a being superior than them. But we Christians know and believe that to be a cHristian is to believe that Jesus came to die for our wrongdoings, and that if we believe in Him, we can have an eternal relationship with Him. Now, if we sin, we can ask Him forgiveness, and we will be saved from death. But that doesn’t mean we go killing, lying, cheating and stuff. We believe it is a blessing to be free from the guilt of sin. But a lot of people think that after they become a Christian, life will be easy. False. Life Will bring trials, but there will be someone (Jesus) Who will be with you forever. When you die, your body rots on earth, but your soul will go to Heaven. (Believe me, a lot of people think Heaven is going to be boring… trust me, it’s not.) If some of you are interested and want to learn more, go to needhim.org. Please don’t criticize me of my small age, I’m just an eighth grader… But I know of truth that I know you’re dying to hear.(By the way the website I showed, It’s very useful for those of you who have no clue waht God is, and if you don’t believe in God, and all that stuff that’s been building up in your mind.)
He probably caught the animals, chain them up and store them in a cell. And if the great flood is correct, there should be plenty of “food” floating around. Right? wasn’t the flood a punishment to humans? The bible says “God sends a great flood to destroy the earth because of man’s wickedness and because the earth is corrupt”. I believe in God and I believe that God is not as malignant as that, the bible paints God as a cruel being. The Ark might have been a myth or even a fable written by Noah, and passed onto the bible. The ark case is like Adam and Eve. Being the first ones to be created to later in their life arrive at some populated towns. Noah is told the earth will be flooded, or so he says, because people are sick. I wonder where all the humans they encounter after the disaster came from.
Joey Joey Joey… all u nid is to juz pray and God Hinmself will help u.
There is proof all around us that a world wide flood did happen. If dinosaurs where wiped out by some meteor, there would be more broken bones and less fully intact skeletons. we see that if tons of pressure (say, for a major water surge) on living organisms form oil and water would erode rock preserving such oils. bones are bones and cannot be broken down anymore than that. Water would only preserve the bones and make them rock like after a long period of time, or much pressure added to it. The Bible says that the water rose ’20 feet higher than the tallest mountain of that day. that is more pressure than anything should be allowed to handle. The Bible says that Noah lived to be six hundred before God called him to build the ark. Many of you have claimed that there is no way man can live that long. the following site has scientific evidence (still theory, but supports the Bible) that Man from back in the beginning of civilization could beat now day man.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=166683
I believe that what we see here is the ark. until someone can prove otherwise by actually going there and taking samples to show that it is not (both illegal by Turkish government.) This is the only thing different on the whole mount Ararat.
God gave Noah very specific directions on how the ark was to be bulit. It was to be bulit of cypress wood and covered in pitch in side and out. The dimensions for the ark 450′ long 75′ wide and 45′ high. It was to have an opening at the top of about 18 inches for light. The ark also had three different decks on it. Noah was 600 years old when the flood waters came. After the ark was bulit God had two of every KIND of animal not two of every species of animal. The book of Genesis says that because of mans wickedness God judged the world with a worldwide flood. If this is true you would think we would find dead things buried in rock layers, laid down by water over most of the earth. and that is exactly what we find. That goes along with what we read in the book of Gensis cahpter seven Verse 17-24
Excellent synopsis, Earl.
one thing you fail to factor earl. it was two of every kind of animal, but one thing that you missed is that there was also supposed to be seven of every kind of CLEAN animal. that is the only problem with your synopsis.
I have just read the comments on this blog. Interesting conglomeration.
Is Noah’s Ark on Mt. Aarat? Maybe, maybe not.
1. We do not know exactly where to look. Genesis 8:4 says “the Ark rested upon the mountains of Aarat”. That’s a big mountain range that is believed to cover an area occupying parts of present-day Turkey, Iraq, Armenia, and Iran. Why do some researchers focus on the 17,000′ mountain in Turkey that is called “Mt. Aarat” today (even though it did not used to be called that). A very good reason is that it is the highest peak in the area, which is pretty important, because Genesis 8 explains that the Ark was on this resting spot for about 2 1/2 months before the water level receded enough to see the tops of other peaks (based on current heights of other peaks in the range). This mountain is also studied because of numerous historical claims of a wooden object glimpsed there. But Genesis does not give a GPS location. If you read the actual accounts or watch them on DVD or have actual experience climbing a volcanic mountain like Mt. Aarat, you will know that a successful search is extremely difficult, if not impossible. There are many, many obstacles. Search for the nearly fatal stories of Moon-walking Astronaut Jim Irwin and of geologist John D. Morris, Ph.D.
2. Genesis and the rest of the Bible do not say anything about the preservation of Noah’s Ark for the next 4500 years. We have no idea if the Creator intended for it to remain intact (or in pieces) for curiosity seekers (skeptical or otherwise) in the 21st Century.
3. “We” do not know exactly what we are looking for. What if all or part of Noah’s Ark is on the mountain that people are searching? What if satelite information was released? Would that mean that “we” would find the Ark? Photos and stories and memories and word-of-mouth actually point out more than one possible location. What does this mean? Are there geologic formations that resemble a large Ark when they are covered by a glacier or by volcanic debris? Yes. If the Ark was broken up (by earthquakes, volcanic action, avalanches, glacier movement)and parts moved down the hill to different levels, how would we even detect a part in the satelite photos? If we were looking for the whole thing, when it was not whole, we could miss it. If we found a part, such as some wooden planks, how can we be sure about it? And whose story will we accept? What laboratory findings will we accept? Who can afford to pay a laboratory? It costs big bucks. What laboratory will even agree to test it? Is there a laboratory qualified to test something so specific as the 4500-year old structure recorded in Genesis? Or, should we consider it to be Gilgamesh’s story or some otherlegend (Cultures all over the globe have an ancient Flood story), which would make it a different date and a different material and a different location?
4. How would you recognize “it” if it was found? What would convince you of what exactly you had found? Would it have to have Noah’s name on it? Or Gilgamesh? or?… What if it had electic lights and fans on it? What if it had an marvelous plumbing system? What if it had no plumbing system, and it really stank badly of stale fecal material? What are you prepared to accept? Have you really thought this through?
The story is found in Genesis, chapters 6 through 9 discuss the details of the Flood and of Noah and the Ark. Chapters 10 and 11 follow up with where Noah’s descendents spread out across the globe and what they did in the next few hundred years. This is cool, I think, since I and all of us are descended from Noah and his three sons.
More later.
any 1 ever hear the story o the goat farmer and his son around 200 yr ago that went up the Mt its been snow and ice since the time of noah and the hall is crushed and broken over a cliff i know the true story its in hebrew wrighting. thay know ware it is
The Lord was,is, and here to come. In Him anything is possible.
Several explanations…If you examine Gen. 1:29-30 and Gen 9:1-3, you will find that before the flood, all living beings were vegetarians and after the flood some creatures, including man became meat-eaters. Some obviously like man have continued to eat both meat and plants. As for the animals on the ark…we always assume that these were grown animals. They could have easily been very young, small animals and could also have been put (by God or by instinct) into a state of hibernation. This would have greatly decreased the amount of space and food needed. While I believe that with God all things are possible, most of the improbables become very probable when examined thoroughly.
Good job, Bruce. Yes, the whole purpose of taking pairs of animals on board was to repopulate the earth afterwards, rather than creating all new creatures. So, the animals on board would have benn young, as in approximately reprouctive age. They would not have attained their full size in all cases. (The Ark was big enough, even if they had.) The average size of all the KINDS of animals that would have had to be on board was about that of a sheep. A lot of sheep can fit in a standard box car on a train. The Ark was the size of about 522 box cars. Of course, the Ark provided way more than enough room–animals were NOT packed in like they are on a box car. After all, God cares about animals and tells us to care for them, so they were very well cared for.
As to dinosaurs, some of the biggest animals, here are some comments. If some of them were reptilian, then that could explain their large size prior to the Flood, since some reptiles continue growing throughout their lives. In the better environment prior to the Flood, they could have lived longer and grown bigger. Even today poorer environment, we sometimes hear of a few reptiles living past 100 years or more. It is well-known that the larger alligators are the older ones. Dinosaurs on the Ark would have been young adults ready to reproduce and, therefore, NOT super large. Some dinosaurs may have been mammalian like the mother sauropod or longneck shown nursing two babies on an ICA grave stone from ancient Peru. When mammals are ready to reproduce for the first or second time, they are often not as large as they will ultimately become.
If all or part of Noah’s Ark is ever found in such a way that the public can see or learn about it, God’s awesome plan for the animals He created will be revealed. Of course, He cared even more for people and made the Ark large enough for all the humans who could have chosen to come aboard (but sadly, they chose not to–but that is a whole other story).
To those saying this does NOT look like a boat are thinking too narrowly. Think Ancient boats and Fill it up with thousands of years of debris including petrified laminated wood. Glue and panels also petrified and you have enough weight to push out the sides(splaying) which is what we see today. The kicker is the fact that an earthquake revealed the ancient craft, then scientists have been all over it and have all said it’s a boat with measurements close to that of Noah’s Ark.
To those saying this does NOT look like a boat are thinking too narrowly. Think Ancient boats and Fill it up with thousands of years of debris including petrified laminated wood. Glue and panels also petrified and you have enough weight to push out the sides(splaying) which is what we see today. The kicker is the fact that an earthquake revealed the ancient craft, then scientists have been all over it and have all said it’s a boat with measurements close to that of Noah’s Ark.
http://www.icr.org/article/search-for-noahs-ark-status-1992/ Try this for the status of Noah’s Ark studies and particularly research about the photos above or similar ones.
noha’s ark rested on moutain Judy and not Arrarat.. and for all those who don’t believe the story is because the bible confuses you,, the whole world did have the flood, it was just noha’s people and that means noha’s area.. and it did not rain for forty days,,, no one knows for sure but it must have been just a week at most…come back to the real relgion,,ISLAM AND ALL YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED..THE BIBLE IS NOT THE ORIGINAL ONE…PEACE
HEY MARVIN MONARBA, LETS SEE YOU SHAPESHIFT INTO AN ELEPHANT! NOTHINGS IMPOSSIBLE WITH GOD, REMEMBER???
you people are all crackheads. That one idiot with the theory the god is an alien, get a life. How old are you, 2? Noah’s ark is something that can neither be proved or denied. There are things that will be left secret, and things that are better left secret.
i believe in noah’s ark i have faith that God has a specific plan for everything. I am a former Atheist and i had the same thoughts you people do. God is real and exist! did naoh’s ark really happened, i believe it did. If you really think about it you guys had to have some belief in Noah’s ark because if you didn’t you would not have searched for it. I love God and i will never believe he is not there ever again. WAKE UP!! and take time to give him a chance he is trying to get through to you. Give God a chance no matter what your sucumstances are. Thank you. love you guys ^^
If, not of this planet, alien is, then God, not of this planet, alien is. Although, more likely, we to God, alien are.
Too bad Ron Wyatt passed. He did see some amazing artifacts, including the Ark. Oh well, those are of the past and we be of the present. Thinking outside of the here and present does allow one to see what was, might have been, could be. One way, or another we shall all arrive at what will be, dead, or alive. Allow enough space in your noggin to admit “possibilities.”
inrich you life with history befor you care what any 1 says thay found
So many questions and maybe there will be more- which simply spells the limited capacity of man to understand God. That I think is the reality of how incomprehensible God is- the human mind can not contain Him—that is why He is God.The question therefore is not having to see proofs to prove that there is God but to realize that He is existing and obviously we can not fathom Him. With that I say, only FAITH will make you understand HIM!
ITS TIME THAT HUMANITY GROWS UP…ENOUGH OF STUPID ORGANISED RELIGION BULLSHIT…ENOUGH OF “RELIGIOUS WARS!!!”OVER WHO’S GOD IS TRUE….ENOUGH OF BELIEVING IN GOD AS SOME ENTITY….THERE IS NO GENDER OF GOD…THE EXISTENCE IS GROWING AND UNFOLDING ITSELF…THERE WERE MESSIAHS AND THERE WILL BE ….THEY WILL BE AMONG US IN EVERY CENTURY…
ITS TIME THAT WE ALL COLLECTIVELY EMBRACE MINIMIZED ENTROPY VIEW OF THE WORLD…
YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN WATER TO QUENCH YOUR THIRST…WHEN YOU DRINK IT…THE TASK IS DONE BY ITSELF
THERE IS NO POINT IN SAYING I BELIEVE IN GOD….ASK YOURSELF A QUESTION- DO I REALLY KNOW GOD OR I HAVE BEEN TOLD BECAUSE I WAS BORN INTO A PARTICULAR RELIGION WITH CERTAIN SET OF BELIEFS AND DOGMAS..HOW ABOUT YOUR PARENTS DO THEY REALLY KNOW ABOUT GOD?
JUST A CLAIM THAT QURAN OR BIBLE IS THE BOOK OK KNOWLEDGE IS STUPID.
IF EVERYTHING IS IN QURAN THEN WHY DO NEED SCIENCE WHEN YOU FALL SICK…JUST PRAY.
WHY USA THE BIGGEST CATHOLIC COUNTRY HAS SO MUCH WEAPONS…JUST BELIEVE IN GOD AND FALL ON YOUR KNEES AND PRAY…
THINK OVER THIS
Think over this “bullship and gender?” That doesn’t leave room for much else in my brain.
I got a head-ache. Must be that piece of brain I got stuck in my head.
Here’s a simple one… “prove” the Hebrew chronology of the O.T. wrong. That’s possible, one way or another.
Just for fun.
I know, I know “what else do you do for fun?” lol
Hey, what about believing in yourself, and the car you drive. That should get you a long ways, until you hit a tree.
This can’t be proved dogmatically, but it may be an answer to the “unanswered” questions:
1)The earth was completely different before the flood – the atmosphere was more oxygen rich and more pressure (search air bubbles in tree sap). This would enable humans to live A LOT longer, and healthier.
2)Animals, as well as humans, were vegetarians and would not eat each other before the flood. Before the flood, Genesis 1:29 says God gave us “every herb bearing seed…..” for food. After the flood, Genesis 9 says “the fear and dread of man will fall upon all the beasts of the earth…” and “everything that lives and moves will be food for you…” I assume our appetites changed when the flood destroyed most of the vegetation. We would HAVE TO eat animals to survive.
3)Plan ahead and bring plenty of food
4)Bring babies, NOT adults. They eat less and take up less space, and the “predatory animals eating the smaller animals” wouldn’t be an issue.
5)Noah’s job was to keep the ark clean – good sanitation and free from disease. I’m sure he was smart enough to handle this, considering he was 600 years old
Why do people doubt that all these things are possible is he not our true god, what can be to much for him if he was able to create all and take all away. I believe in god for a few reasons.
1.I have had contact with him in more than one occasion.
2.Why not believe in the end you are going to die full stop,i will rather believe and go to heaven than not believe and say at judgement day well i didnt know what do we have to lose, you people that dont believe have issues you find it easy to believe in ghosts but you cant believe in god what is you problem, you need to think this out and get your priorities right.
You say the Bible is confusing. I am not sure how much more clearly it can be on the account of Noah’s ark and the account of Noah and his family. You also say that it could not have rained for more than a week and that no one really knows how long it rained. In a way you a correct, because none of us were there on the day the rain started or on the day it stopped, but what we do have is the word of God and because God is the Creator of heaven and earth he can make it rain for forty days and forty nights. He was there, He made it happen, and He told us about it. The Bible says in GENESIS 6:17-18, “I (God) am going to bring Floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.” (NIV) And it goes on to talk about the covenant God made with Noah and with ALL people, including you and me. As to Mt. Judi, it is one of the “mountains of Aararat”.
The Koran and scholars of Islam say the following things about the Flood:
“So We inspired him (with this message): `Construct the Ark within Our sight and under Our guidance: then when comes Our command, and the oven gushes forth, take thou on board pairs of every species, male and female, and thy family- except those of whom the Word has already gone forth: and address Me not in favour of the wrong-doers: for they shall be drowned (in the Flood).” S. 23:27 At length, behold! There came Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: `Embark therein, of each two, male and female, and your family- except those against whom the Word has already gone forth,- and the believers.’ But only a few believed with him.” S. 11:40
“So We opened the gates of heaven, with water pouring forth. And we caused the earth to gush forth with springs. So the waters met (and rose) to the extent decreed. But We bore him on an (Ark) made of broad planks and caulked with palm-fibre: She floats under Our eyes (and care): a recompense to one who had been rejected (with scorn)!” S. 54:11-14
“And Noah said: `O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers, a single one on earth! For if Thou dost leave (any of them), they will but mislead Thy devotees, and they will breed none but wicked ungrateful ones.'” S. 71:26-27
“Then the word went forth: `O earth! Swallow up thy water, and O sky! withhold (thy rain)! And the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: `Away with those who do wrong!'” S. 11:44
Ibn Kathir writes:
‘Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn ‘Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, “There was no one left apart from the offspring of Nuh, peace be upon him.” Sa’id bin Abi ‘Arubah said, narrating from Qatadah …
“All people descended from the offspring of Nuh, peace be upon him.” At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abi Hatim narrated from Samurah, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Prophet … said concerning the Ayah …
…
((Sam, Ham and Yafith.))
Imam Ahmad recorded from Samurah, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Messenger of Allah … said …
((Sam was the father of the Arabs, Ham was the father of the Ethiopians and Yafith was the father of the Romans.)) (Tafsir Ibn Kathir Abridged, Volume 8, Surat Al-Ahzab, Verse 51 to the end of Surat Ad-Dukhan, First edition: September 2000, pp. 262-263; bold emphasis ours)
All these traditions taken from men such as Ibn Kathir, Ibn Abbas, and even Muhammad himself, clearly refute the modern …idea of a local flood.
As to the Bible not being the original written book, nothing on this Earth was written prior to the Bible. The first chapter of the Bible was written and signed by the Creator Himself and given to Adam, who in turn wrote of his family history, and so on for a total of 11 “this is the history of”’s in the first book, Genesis, which, of course, Moses later compiled and edited and included in the Torah. Of course, ALL the Bible is from God, our Creator and Savior. My family will praying for you and yours.
Brothers and Sisters, God IS REAL and I know it. So, I have no doubt Noah’s ark is as real as you and me.
Just remember, God works in mysterious ways that our human brain cannot comprehend. GBU
rejecting the validity of the Bible in our current times is equivalent to a society 2000 years from now rejecting historical records that are currently being composed… the Bible was accepted by our country’s early leaders as pure, factual history… it is now very unpopular to believe the bible. I attribute this to the rapid growth of tolerism, evolutionary teachings, and the failure of the modern church, among other things. Overall, it is man’s reluctance to answer to a God or moral standard for his own actions that drives him to reject the Bible. With evolution and a completely tolerant attitude, there is no accountability. I am blessed to be a “right-wing conservative lunatic.” I am blessed to be detached from moral relativity, and I am blessed to have a little faith. My faith plays a small role in my acceptance of the flood account, however, because it is through reason and logic that the validity of Noah’s Ark is confirmed. thank you to those who explained most of it so I don’t have to
Psalms 83:17
Make them failures in everything they do; let them be ashamed and terrified until they learn that you alone, Jehovah, are God above all gods in supreme charge of all the earth.
Simple answer… According to the instructions given to Noah, there were provisions for food for the animals. Also, the Bible states that Noah was in the ark for about one year. Not every animal arround today was around when Noah built the arc. He did not have to round up every type of dog, he just needed to take the grey wolf. The grey wolf has all of the genetic code contained in every species of dog. The dogs that left the ark multiplied into every species we have today. It is the process of natural selection. It was the same for all the animals. There are fossils of giraffes with short necks. Also, not all animals would have to be full grown mature adults. Juvinile animals do not take up as much room. After all of the gussing and speculation is done, nobody is still alive to give us a first hand account. All we are able to do is guess at the details. So, all we can do to guess at the details that is not written in the Bible. Religon aside, the Bible has a proven track record for historical acuracy.
Noah’s Ark is real; everything is possible in Gods eye. God can do anything for real, He is the God that we will Bow our heads down, Nonbelievers always go against God, but let me tell you mate, if only God don’t LOVE you, you could have been gone by now. He has lots of promises in Life, just that we don’t believe or we don’t find a way to find these things. If know the purpose of God for you, you are lucky, but if you don’t then I think it is time for a change.
Okay, so the Christians have a myth about the Ark, so does alot of other religions. So, fake or not, so many religions can’t be wrong.
We need to stop assuming that the answer to how we ought to live as humans is something that we need to get from God, or Allah, or Buddha, or aliens, or whatever. Salvationist religions first emerged when “civilized” humans began to truly leave behind the things we really knew, the thngs we really needed, as we rolled with the civilization snowball. The ‘secret of life’, the answer of ‘how to live’ is not unattainable. It is not something we must search for from the gods or spirits or extraterrestrials. WE posessed, at one time, this information- it was bred into us like eating, breathing, hunting. Any anthropologist will tell you that the human species was living successfully and sustainably (yes, living full and rewarding lives, not merely ‘surviving’) for tens of thousands of years before civilization began. And some few can still be found living in this way today. EVERY OTHER SPECIES on the earth WORKS, lives sustainably without fucking it up, so why shouldn’t we? We must not define “humanity” and all it’s fuck-ups as the human species itself. There is nothing wrong with the human species! We know how to live! It is our civilized and ‘modern’ world, East and West, that is fucking it up- our cultures and our people have not evolved in a healthy and sustainable way, and now, as a biological rule, we are beginning to truly see the consequences.
Remember that we are not ‘doomed’ as a species to screw ourselves over. There is still hope; you just have to know where to look for it.
(Read some Daniel Quinn, amoung others..)
I do agree with Sarah! I have been chatting to a Catholic priest a while back, asking all sorts of questions about the Church. It’s been screwing people over since day one. Most of its Holidays and beliefs are from Pagan origin. They have been surpressing the natural way of living for centuries. Killing thousands of innocent people because they knew of nature and its wonders. Executing them as witches. It is our knowledge of the less important that screwed with our minds. Science and its wonders that supercharged disease. It’s our quest to know and evolve as a scientific superpower that will destroy us all…
In Q’ran, they say there are lines written by god to kill infidels…strange !!! if he did not want them why did he bother to create them…is he so impotent that he himself cannot wipe them out and outsourced this “holy” task to Muslims…
well if thats what religion is…then i am better without this sort of sadistic & jealous god.
Way off topic here. I can talk about religion for hours. I love questioning the Catholic faith and all the crap that is written about them, but I do not think that this is the place to get into it. This page is reserved for a discussion about Noah’s Ark.
Here’s an idea for a interresting topic, 9/11… I would love to see what people have to say about that!!!
I’ve been watching people have at it on this post. In my opinion most comments are off-topic, but so what? I’ve learned from this post to let people talk if they want, and the discussion will go wherever it takes us. That said, I want to respond to Sarah on Nov. 20th.
Daniel Quinn is full of shit. It’s easy to say that we should all farm locally, survive locally. We in the Puget Sound should live on what we grow, L.A. should live on what they grow, Cairo should live on what they grow, etc., etc. This will bring us back into balance, and population explosions and world hunger will end when the haves stop supporting the have-nots. Have I got that right?
If I read your comments correctly, you admire a sort of stone-age or iron-age technology. A technology where people support themselves, that’s the main thing. Wherever you live, that’s where you must find your sustenance. Hunt, gather, farm, purchase; all locally. Do I have it right?
That is the argument of the haves. Daniel Quinn discusses Houston Texas as being able to sustain 2 million people. Houston couldn’t sustain shit if it weren’t for the oil it processes. Buy oil, and sell gasoline, that’s what Houston does. Let them slake their thirst on petrol. Daniel Quinn discusses the slow demise of half the earth’s population. He’s cold. He’s got his, and everybody else can go to hell. He ignores empathy, a fine old trait common to homo
sapiens.
Every Think it’s Impossible For Us ( Human ). But For God It’s Possible. How great thou art.
all you guys there listen up .if you want to know the TRUTH then look up in the HOLY QURAN bcoz the QURAN is the WORDS OF ALLAH and it has not been changed from the day ALLAH has created. if you were to look at the bible then you’ll see that it has been changed from its original state so you cant rely on the bible.
all you guys there listen up .if you want to know the TRUTH then look up in the HOLY QURAN bcoz the QURAN is the WORDS OF ALLAH and it has not been changed from the day ALLAH has created it. if you were to look at the bible then you’ll see that it has been changed from its original state so you cant rely on the bible.
looks like an arch to me. if it is still standing & built so long ago why cant we build houses that good? i guess because we cant get close enuf to see how its built cause its guarded…ohhhh maybe so it stays preserved.. kinda like area 51 is guarded…hey what is the govt hiding…sorry off topic so ya looks like the arch to me so ill go with the arch for 50 dollars rick oh this isnt jeopardy!!! damn
I don’t think I trust the Bible all that much… or any other religious text for that matter. The birth of every “son of god” figure is the same as every other “son of god” figure. Jesus, Horus and everybody else. Virgin birth, does all these great thintgs and then gets crusified. So, they found a big boat, big deal. It could be some crazy guy that predicted a flood and he built a big boat. There is no chance that the Earth can sustain such a vast amount of water anyway!
That is my story and I’m sticking to it! Don’t question me!
i think that this is an amazing story and that it makes a lot of sence that maybe where noahs boat landed. It states in the first ever found story of the ancient egyptians that there was a flood and that a man made an ark and that he put an abundant amount of animals on the boat.
Speaking of the Egyptians… Did you know that the math involved eith the Great Pyramid is the exact same math involved in the original Bible text before Emperor Constantine fucked it up (or was it that loser, King James? not sure now, I get confused about these things. The facts I remember, but the names I can’t help to forget!)
Anyhoooo….. it predicts the events in the Bible and a bunch of other stuff… like the Mayan Calender, but just not that far into the future*
*I could be wrong about that last one. It’s been a while since I read that. Maybe I should brush up on my Egyptology…
OK, Johan. You seem to like this blog. I like it, too. But if you want to add to the discussion, then I expect you to be thoughtful, and not just another troll. So if you have an idea, then make it clear. I can’t tell what you mean, therefore I think no one else can tell what you mean, either.
What Egyptian math are you talking about? Let us know, thanks very much.
The math thing, okay. The layout of the pyramid. It all goes on numerology. Unfortunately I am not able to tell you exactly what I mean untill I do some research first. I have forgotten most of what I’ve read, so, give me a couple of days and I will get back to you on that one once I find my book. It’s a mess at home with books. I moved recently and all my books are scattered around the study.
OK. Looking back on my comments, I think I was a little harsh. I shouldn’t have implied you were a troll. Keep us posted. Thanks Johan!
To, the person saying Noahs ark is bull shit why animals didnt eat others and dont believ in religious things etc etc.
Well humans were observing them dont they. And tell me what came first ? egg or chicken? or how can u justify? who created first human? and how? get some life.
and to Rick saying in Quran there are lines saying kill the infidels, well mister if a LINE says Moses was not wise this donot means he was not wise(dumb), what you need to see what is said before and after that line. Complete story i mean. For example Moses was not wise as compared to Kizr etc.
And in your case of killing infidels, the complete story is God asked Muslims to kill infidels when the war started, that verses(text) was revealed at the time of war. And near this text it says also be kind to the infidels who are good to you, now if you only extract the text “be kind to infidels” then it is a contradiction now isnt it?
So, you cannot extract one part of text from a whole thing (its meaning is changed that way)
Sorry about broken english.
Honestly, the flood truly happened. Noah’s ark is indeed real. Meat was not eaten at all for food until after the flood, this is one of the big misconceptions looked upon. All the earth was still eating vegetation, and didn’t adapt to eating meat until after the flood had happened, when vegetation was still sparse. Which is why God ordered 7 clean, and only 2 unclean animal pairs each. The clean would be used to meat upon return. They were much healthier then because it had not even been 1000 years from the fall of man through selfishness and disobedience to the God of love (who had our best interest in mind but gave us genuine freewill- which proved, Father knows best!), that the flood had occurred. Adam was still alive until Noah’s father was born… so Adam was able to see just how evil things would get as a result of sinning against the only true living GOD. They were much healthier before the fall, with their diet in Eden, and just after, because there was no death, there was no animals to be killed, and no animals to be killed meant to meat from animal flesh. There are many ways they could have been sustained for 40 days and nights, simply if they were only babies, and every animal, even to this day, such as migrating birds, trust in God to provide food and warmth and direction for those very needs. How much more could He have led the animals together when carnality hadn’t reached it’s peak through death and destruction, even amongst each other? Truly God had a pure, utopia created specially for man, and the Creator knows best, but we always seem to think the creation knows best. Clearly, we’ve often lost sight of the Owner and the manual He gave us to reveal Himself to thoroughly and definitively in His love… =( …this world is in a questionable state at the moment…
Noah was given instructions on how to build the boat; therefore, he was also given instructions on how to feed and care for all of the animals and people that were there. just because you don’t know how he did it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen.
I like your blog, and I believe in the account of Noah and the ark as recorded in the Bible. God kept the Israelites fed as they wandered in the desert for 40 years, and he kept their clothes and shoes from wearing out. Surely he was capable of supplying food for the animals and people on the Ark. Someone said that the animals could have been on the ark for years. Genesis 7:24 says “The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.” Reading on into the next chapter we read that the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat. Forty days later Noah sent the dove to learn if the land had dried. It appears they left the ark on the twenty-seventh day of the second month. (57 days?) A little math gives us a figure of a few days more than 200 days on the ark. A small god might not be able to handle this, but the God who created the heavens and earth had no problem managing this small miracle. We don’t know all the hows, but how much do humans really know anyway? A few of us think they know everything including what happened (or didn’t happen) thousands of years ago. I’d like to see THEM prove it. Was someone there taking pictures? Why is the burden always on the Bible believers to prove it DID happen? The only way someone can prove there is no God or that God didn’t do what he said he did is for that super smart (in his own opinion) to have been everywhere and seen everything there is to see, both past and present.
http://www.hiswhisperings.com
I am not a Christian, but do believe in some form of intelligent design. I am doing a school project on Noah’s Ark. We are looking at the Mythological, Logistical, Archelogical, and Geological evidence to see if it was possible. In a nut shell. The main thing to consider here is Historical Context. You have to remember the people writting this used religion to explain the unexplainable. With that said virtually every single culture since the beginning of time has a story of Flood myth. Most entail a story about a mans encounter with a god who instructs them to build a boat. All of them have only 1 or two survivors. These survivors are always the decendents of their civilization. The story of Noah’s Ark actually does not have Hebrew origins but Summerrian-Babylonian in the Epic of Gilgamesh. The thing about this is there are too many coincidences in world mythology for some sort of massive flood to have occured globally for every culture in the world to write about it, some of which never had contact with each other. Geologically the last ice age eneded ~13,000 years ago. This would have created a spike in global warming, which in turn causes water to melt. With fresh water melting there is going to be a rapid rise in sea level. As water begins to expand onto the continents the hydrosphere (Earth’s cycle of water from lakes, rivers and ocerans to the sky and then backl down to land) expands. With this comes more evaporation and more humidity. This means more storms, that would have been unknown to the area. Now imagine your Neolithic man and your observing all this. What the hell do we do. We have to build a boat. We have to save our livestock. So somebody, anybody does this rather quickly and saves the small settlement form distruction. He has performed a miracle by defeating the elements. It must have been divine intervention. Archelogical eveidence suggests that ~13,000 the seeds of civilization were beginning to take form. the oldest temple in the world is ~11,000 years ago, in Turkey. Coincidentally where Noah’s Ark landed Mt. Ararat). The new abundance of water means that Pre-historic man can now begin to cultivate the land much easier and in many more locations. This is what starts civilization and they hold onto the memories through oral traditions of what saved them from the devastating furry of God(s). There are too many concidences for some ginat Flood to have actually occured. Covered the Earth? Highly doubt it. There’s just no geological/acheological evidence to support this. You have to accoutn for man’s embellishment of things they can’t explain. With that said we’ve concluded that Noah’s Ark was more than a slight possibility. We think it actually was a historical event. Now with that said I must question the refusal of Christians to accept science. Science is proof of God and you continue to deny it even when Science prooves many of the ridiculous stories from the bible could actually be true. You only hold onto the old testiment stories that fit your present beliefs. You have a God that is all knowing and all powerful, yet he is not capable of science or evolution, do you not see the problem?
시난의 생각…
[믿거나 말거나] Noah’s Ark…
lostsin's me2DAY said this on December 19, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Yup. Looks like a mountain alright.
I believe that GOD has been and always was! He always WILL BE!
Christians do accept science; Christian scientists use science just as much as non-Christian ones. The same techniques are used as any other scientists. If anything, science proves that there is a creator. Why would God use evolution when all he has to do is speak it into existence? As for the story of a flood or a lot of water a big boat in all different regions and cultures all over the earth the answer is easy; when the flood came, everything on the earth was destroyed with the exception of Noah and his three sons and their wife’s and since they were the only people left on the earth alive, in Genesis chapter 9:18 – 19 (NKJV) it reads, “now the sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And Ham was the father of Canaan. These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated.” Since the Bible clearly states that Noah and his family were to repopulate the earth and since every one after the flood would come from Noah and his family, all his descendents would speak the same language and would have been told about the flood. If you read the story of the tower of Babel in the book of Genesis chapter 11:7 – 11:9 you will read how God confused their language so they could not understand each other; then the Lord scattered them all over the earth and that is how we get the different languages and cultures in the world and that is why in different reigions there are stories about a big boat and flood waters. I think the odds of people who never met and have the same basic kind of story of a big boat or flood are very big if not almost impossible, if they have never met or are even unable to communicate with one another since their language will be different but the Bible’s account makes complete sense out of the story and is just another way that the Bible can be trusted.
Answers in Genesis
Ken Ham and Tim Lovett
October 11 1997
Where Is the Evidence in the Earth for Noah’s Flood?
For this they willingly forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water (2 Peter 3:5-6).
Evidence of Noah’s Flood can be seen all over the earth, from seabeds to mountaintops. Whether you travel by car, train, or plane, the physical features of the earth’s terrain clearly indicate a catastrophic past, from canyons and craters to coal beds and caverns. Some layers of strata extend across continents, revealing the effects of a huge catastrophe.
The earth’s crust has massive amounts of layered sedimentary rock, sometimes miles (kilometers) deep! These layers of sand, soil, and material–mostly laid down by water–were once soft like mud, but they are now hard stone. Encased in these sedimentary layers are billions of dead things (fossils of plants and animals) buried very quickly. The evidence all over the earth is staring everyone in the face.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/really-a-flood-and-ark
Excellent points, Earl. Cool link, too.
It would have been impossible for there to be enough water on the planet to cover all land. There is sea level, below sea level (where the water is) and above sea level. When places on the planet have floods it is because too much rain is happening with out enough drainage. But the water drains back into the sea and sea level is quite the same. (What changes sea level is warmer water (the molecules expand) and the glaciers melting (water already on the planet melting into the sea). Even if all of the glaciers melted there would still be land for people to live on. Just less. RAIN IS NOT SOMETHING ADDED TO THE EARTH. It comes from the earth (evaporation, condensation {Clouds} and precipitation {Rain}). The earth is a huge place and would not flood all land if it rained for only 40 days.
Also just to add for the religious part, religion is a by product of not being able to understand why things happen. Religion is a way for people to gain meaning in their lives. Religion is so people will not spend their days worried about death…It is a coping mechanism.
EX: Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt were both some of the first major places, and were both flurishing around the same era. So Mesopotamia which lay between two very unpredictable rivers saw their Gods as crule and hard to please. Where in Eqypt the Nile has a record of flooding within the same for days every year, and so the Egyptians see their God (The one who brings the harvest) as kind and giving, easily pleased.
Please does anyone see a pattern here?
The Hebrews who were slaves in Egypt there religious belief system is a way of coping with the horrible life they had. It tells that the best way to live (the way to get you to paradise) is not to be in power, control or have material things but to be the best you can in the situation you have. Which honestly if I were a slave that kind of faith would make my life a lot more bearable. Also telling them that those who are making them do things against my will (the Egyptians, captors, people they obviously do not like) will be going to hell.
Religions are made by the people to suit their life styles, whatever benefits them (based on where they are living on the land) is what determines how the religions rules and guidelines will be.
Earl Stanbridge…
This is a question for you and other Christians that blindly believes… If they were the only people on this Earth after the flood (and the Bible never mentioned that other people were created after that… This whole world is going to HELL! Then every single human being on this planet is in an incestuous relationship. So, in fact, it is not against the Christian faith to screw my brother!
SICK! (I have a HOT cousin though… he might do…) Okay, now I’m just being gross!
Lisa, you are missing some very important facts, scientifically and historically. You have some more research to do before you understand what happened. In the meantime, your conclusions are faulty, because your premises are inaccurate.
Grandmajosi,
It sounds like you know what this missing facts are would you care to enlighten me and the rest of the forum?
Lisa, that’s a good question. Some helpful links and comments have already been given on this forum. But I will repeat some of them and add to them shortly.
For starters, try reading the historical account itself in context in Genesis, chapters 1 to 10; that way, you know exactly what is the hypothesis that you want to test and to refute or not refute. For helpful commentary from people who have carefully studied the language from which this account was translated and the science behind it, you might or might not want to try the link above on Dec. 22, sent by Earl. You might also want to get a copy of “Noah’s Ark: a Feasibility Study” (by Witmorape) or “The Genesis Flood” (by Moris and Whitcomb). These should be available from places like Amazon.com or from a library (by Interlibrary Loan, if not local). I’ll send more in a bit.
Yeah….I still don’t buy it. What that article seems to be doing is slightly contradicting the scripture to fit in with today’s science (or should I say religion, because it is how humans now believe things they can’t control happen and why) and then go back around (in some explanations) to contradict itself to say the scripture is correct.
Explain to me, in your own words please, why it is that religion is evolutionary, or why it is not. Because I truly believe that religion evolves based on the circumstances of the people who create it, or believe in it. And there is nothing wrong with that. Religion is like a government, it is a set of guide-lines and rules for a set of people to believe in and follow, it gives meaning, purpose and comfort to/in their daily lives. But I will say that there is something terribly wrong with killing other cultures/civilizations for not believing in the same thing. That is why I think RELIGION IS HUMANITY’S DOWNFALL.
Lisa, I agree that “religion”, the kind of religion that you are talking about, can be hmanity’s downfall. But that is not what I have. I am talking about the unique person who created the universe, the loving, intelligent, caring, perfect Creator, who wants our friendship. There is nothing better or higher than personally knowing and loving and talking with your Creator. He wrote to us; it’s called the Bible. It is not about religion or anything humans have invented. It’s all about HIM! It’s all about HIM! He is the KING of kings. He is the only person worthy of our worship, because without HIM, we would not exist, without HIM, there would be no universe, no beauty, no goodness, no hope of eternity in paradise. It’s all about HIM! All us created humans have broken some of the laws He created and have messed up a perfect world, but soon He will remake it beautiful again for all of us who accept His offer; What does He offer? He paid the cost of fixing our messes by dying in our place and by rising from the dead three days later; He offer us to accept His perfect substitute as our free ticket to live with Him forever. It is sooooooooooo simple. He offers us pure, unendinglove, love so amazing; the kind of love that we all want. We just have to accept it.
OMG! There’s a dent in a rock!!! ha ha just kidding
Grandmajosi,
So I can see that you believe that an all powerful supernatural being created the universe, us etc. I to some degree respect people for being able to believe in a God and regardless of my disagreements I am not here to changes anyone’s opinion on how the world was created, religion etc. But I am here to share my opinion of what I believe is to be true. And my belief does not agree with yours. I think that in order to be good and have a good life I should be kind, but not have to worship anything or anyone. It is fear of living in hell that motivates some who believe in God to be good. I feel the motivation to be good should be intrinsic. But anyways, I am not trying to change your mind nor do I want you to try and change mine. I would say though that god did not write the bible people did (based on what someone they could not see said to them..??I don’t know) also “He”/God did not die for our sins, his “son” Jesus did. And I do believe Jesus was a real person, but I do not believe he was the son of god.
I am sorry if this is offensive but I feel that in some beliefs like Christianity it is wrong to follow “Gods” word and say that there is no other god, and that all other religious beliefs are false. And things like, it is not okay to marry another person who is not a christian….it really just seems like a set of rules for people to follow,(the bible) which gives meaning to their daily lives and something to believe in. No harm in that until people start killing each other over it. (crusades, and other wars and fighting based on other religions) but I have done some ancient European studies and there was lots of persecution but nothing like what went on while and after the christian faith spread.
There are many beliefs out there non are right (this includes science), as a great quote states, “If today were perfect there would be no need for tomorrow”
As for Noah’s Ark, Someone named Noah could have built an archa nd put people and animals on it, and to those who were on it in fear of DEATH could have written a story (over exaggerated) as to what happened either during or after the event. Example another religious beliefe is based off of a man who wondered into some caves and wrote a book claiming that God told him what to write. The bible is a collection of stories people wrote claiming God said them, or of events, dreams, etc. that they had experienced in their lives. (That is what I believe the bible to be) it is not bad, except the extremist view where others die, treated different (The Salem witch trials) because they are different.
Here’s a question for you guys.
What if, one day, a ship comes for some far of planet with proof that they created man-kind, what will happen to religion? What will you do if you find out every thing you believe in is not real?
I still do not think I would worship them. I would be great full and give a thank you. But I do not see the need to spend my entire life worshiping them. Of course if I was the the only one who knew I might talk about it, and be called a weirdo but the way I perceive life would still be unchanged. Now if everyone knew then the world itself so dependent on religion I think would change drastically :(
p.s. good question Johan.
good thing god gave us free will to choose to believe or not to believe……noahs ark is not the way to god but it is alittle proof that god is around all of us still…its your choice not mine to be to believe in his son jesus ,noone comes to the father except threw jesus……p.s. happy b-day jesus
I watched 2012 last night. Great movie. It got me thinking. There was a scene in Vatican City, The earth’s crust moved (yes, the actual crust!) and crushed the Pope. Should something like that actually happen, the Pope will get crushed. No divine hand will reach out from the heavens to save him. No, I am not talking down on God’s devotion to his people, it is just that there is no use to save the lives of something or someone that is doomed by his own creation. Noah got a chance. But who sais anybody else will. The Bible does say that the next time the world comes to an end, it will be by fire. We’ll see… Religion was invented by man to controll men. The Catholic Church is a very good example. In fact, it is the best example.
I love the people who argue for the presence of a “god.” No one knows if “it” exists or not and arguing either way it useless. Until we can process it with one of our senses we will always say “Just because you can’t see something, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist” and you can’t argue that it doesn’t if you can’t prove that it doesn’t. But when you die and are buried in 6 six foot hole in the ground, I hope you find humor in the fact that you bought into the biggest deception in human history.
Look at the facts. The story about a God who sent his son, who was also himself on a suicide mission to earth, the only planet that contains life. When he/his son arrived he was born of a virgin. (She just didn’t want to admit that she cheated on Joseph, Just goes to show that one lie can really snowball). Then he disappears in the seedy underbelly of Nazareth with prostitutes, beggars, and lepers for about 30 years until he reappears as a white guy with straight hair and BLUE EYES???? WTF?? He also has a pretty sweet goatee goin on. Then, everybody gets really pissed off that he is a Jew that is having second thoughts so they crucify him and put him in a cave where he manages to escape to hell and then go back to Earth, hangs out for a few days and then skips off to heaven. He is never heard from again. WHAT AN A**Hole.
Now if that wasn’t wild enough, there’s more! 12 different people told stories that were passed down VERBATIM to people who never even met Jesus and they scribbled all 1400 pages down in rock and scrolls???? Ok, that makes sense. There is no way that they writers could have possibly doctored the Bible, right? I mean it’s not like we have a bunch of different versions of the Bible. And its not like we found Gospels that were omitted because they depict Jesus as a normal guy who got married and had kids. GNOSTIC GOSPELS!
Wait, there’s more! Jesus is like a bad alcoholic dad. He keeps promising to come back from the titty bar (heaven) but never does! And if that’s not bad enough, he might not even be our real dad, because there’s like 100 other religions out there that sound exactly like it!!! Egyptian religions had a character very similar to Jesus with the whole birth story and Buddhist researchers believe Siddhartha and Jesus were the same person.
Now Im not saying that being religious is wrong, but it doesn’t make any sense.
Tom Cruise sounds crazy right? Well its not any worse than what is written in the Bible.
Talking bushes?
People living in whales?
Snakes that talk?
Virgins who are preggo?
So either educated scientists and doctors are wrong, or we’ve got some house cleaning to do because the Pope has been running the show for way to long. And someone needs to tell the Catholic Church to hold sway. I mean they keep changing the rules on us.
And P.S.
We are Human! We only believe in God for existential reasons. I understand that it makes you feel safe at night believing that all of your good deeds aren’t going unnoticed and that there’s a higher power waiting to bring you to the kingdom, but its just a fairy tale. WE ARE SUCH EGOTISTICAL CREATURES IT WOULD ONLY MAKE SENSE THAT THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE CREATURES ON EARTH ARE THE ONLY ONES WITH SOULS
And seriously, I’m not trying to argue with anyone. I respect ALL beliefs! I just am a more “if it doesnt make sense, then it doesnt exist kinda guy” so don’t come back at me with all of this your wrong stuff. I cant change any ones mind. I can only give the facts and let you make your own decision.
Whats funny is that the split of the moon, Fetus development, Astronomy, … was mention 1500 years ago in the Quran. Scientists required billions of dollars to Discover these things. These discoveries which are proved and backed up by science only proves the validity of heavenly books.
Please read and beleive before attacking.
What is funny is that they knew of those things to be able to put it in the Quran. Science haven’t yet touched the technology people knew about all those years ago. The Pyramids og Giza can not be built with dodays technology in the presision it was built thousands of years ago. The tools they used to cut out the blocks used was highly advanced even by today’s standards.
They found a city somewhere close to Bermuda. It has skyscrapers the works. They persume that this is supposedly the missing Atlantis (I have my doubts, but we will see when they finish theyr explorations and make their findings public).
Just watched an episode on the history channel about 2-3 weeks ago, I believe. It was about Noah’s ark. It showed a lot of similar pics as the site does. At the end of the episode they were speaking about satellite photos. I thought they were going to show them to, but you can tell even the history channels version on t.v. was edited. Anyone else catch that too?
I believe one question we should ask ourselves is, wouldn’t that disprove many other religions? What kind of an affect would that have on the world? Even if there was 100% proof, should it be released? Just one believer’s question and opinion.
Faith can be a tricky thing to understand and especially to explain. I heard this somewhere can’t remember where or whom, but it goes. Have you ever seen a billion dollars? Everyone knows it exist, right? Thats faith in a way.
I also noticed a lot of non-believers comments being posted. Was wondering what might of brought you to a website that you don’t believe in. Maybe, just maybe, god was trying to connect with you, just somehow.
It seems, in my opinion, that I don’t think we as a whole believe ancient people could of done a lot of things, that they probably could. Noah and the Ark, couldn’t be done back then. I think knowledge of disease, how to care and separate the animals properly, how to build such a great vessel were already learned by man. So even without god’s help, it could of been done. I really don’t think they were that primitive. I think they were just like us, in regards to mental capacity. Aztecs ancient calender, Egyptian pyramids, ancient batteries etc. I really think we under estimate a lot of the ancients. Just my opinion guys
By looking at the ruins, you can tell that these people arent as primitive as some people think they are. As for the moon split, it happened as a miracle during the message as proof. It was seen as far as india. A lot of people considered it as illusion just to lessen from its importance.
All creatures live in their own environment thinking they are superior and know all. For example, ants dont know algebra, dogs dont have the capacity of building a plane. Why is it that people think they know all, maybe there are things that our mind cannot process.(something from out of this world)
To Steve H: you speculate on why a non-believer would even come to website they don’t believe in. I think you miss the point of this post. This is about how people are looking for scientific proof to support their faith. There are several links embedded in this post. In one of them you will learn that Muslims are just as interested in Noah as Christians are. Click on the images.
As for non-believers being drawn to a site they don’t believe in, this blog is about things people should be skeptical about. Crop circles, Bigfoot, UFOs, etc., etc. Maybe logic has drawn you to a non-believer’s page? No, wait! Logic doesn’t work like that.
god is just another person created by some stoner that to have a piece of mind to no that there is someone that created the earth and were we go to after we die… its jus like santa clause, easter bunny and all thos other ones.. when your a kid you always believe in what your parents say. they tell you that santa clause is fake when you reach an age but they say that god is real cuz NO ONE knows wat is goin to happen when we die.. so when ther children ask ”were do we go when we die” we obviously say heaven but everyone knows its not true… and no affense to you religious people, god is make believe to make yourself feel comfortable.. but the truth is evolution. :)
p.s how do we no if this ”god” is actually as good as you think.. he made lucifer – satin. that means some were inside god is evil you have to have evil to create evil.and why would you make millions die and suffer.. thats loving.. and if you see your children gettin beat up or something you wouldnt jus watch.. you would do somethin about it right. thats carin and if we are his “children” he must be honored for the father of the year award jk and if i was god i wouldnt take the believers to heaven for a 1000 years while everyone is in peace unconscious or watever and come back to destroy the non believers. if he has power to create earth that means he can create another one and can leave the non believers on earth, live out there lifes.. but no he has to BURN all the non believers. how f..ked up is that
Too everyone who was talking about ancient ruins, like The Pyramids in Egypt etc… I think in our day and age (especially in the USA) we are told we are better then what we are, that we don’t enslave, or massacure other humans that are different from us, that we are better than that “Barbaric” behavior. Then when we are in college and hear about all the horrible stuff that goes on in the world people are shocked, especially by what the USA has participated in (if it is a US citizen we are talking about, they are indeed shocked). But I must say that throughout the history of man violence, and control over others is a theme: Slavery, the Roman Coliseum (where our ancestors watched people kill eachother for fun), genocide (Not just hitler, but pol pot in Cambodia, the current state of Burma (Myanmar) oh and don’t forget the Native people of North America, oh yeah our government killed them all off…before we came here (Not discovered) there were 92 million natives now there are a few hundred thousand or less.
So I guess what I really wanted to say to people who are trying to figure out how humans “without god” invented such structures did so I have 1 thing to say “Look what slavery can and has accomplished!” I do not support slavery but I do recognize that the great structures and things in the world (wall of China as well as the Pyramids in Egypt etc) were built by slaves, and these are the things people look to as huge accomplishments and wonder…I mean if you have thousands + people who have to do what you say or they die you can build almost anything.
and if god says you will burn forever if you do not believe in me people will go to church to believe not because they are interested and im not sayin all do but a high percentage
What nonsense! Start to finish, it is nothing but a poor attempt tto grasp at the slightest proof. The god of the gaps just fits into smaller and smaller and smaller gaps. I hope the day comes when it just vanishes in a poof of logic.
Please do not use the bible as an historical record. It is a fantastic anthropological analagram of a people’s belief… the most incredible documentation of spoken word and traditions in the history of man spanning 5 millenia! For that, it is a most precious set of records.
However, in the hands of Emporer Constantine and his merrry band of editors (Nicean Council), he managed to cut and paste the records into a doctrine that would suit any Emporer about to lose control of his empire. Just for one example, imagine creating a religion that makes poor people and slaves content with their dismal lives, knowing that their suffering will “buy” them a higher rank in the after-life… so the notion of “the last shll be first” is tailor made to insure that the Emporer will not have to deal with upcoming competition on Earth, and the masses (with less than an equivilant 20th century first grade education) will laugh to themselves thinking about how they can kick the Emporer around in Heaven after they are dead.
The entire basis of Christianity is lost in Christianity. If one believes that Jesus could come back for a visit, he’d hire a dozen lawyers and sue the pants off of every Christian religion for Libel, Slander, Missappropriation of Funds, and Crimes Against Humanity!
I recommend that everyone read two books by Richard Bach – 1) “Illusions – The adventures of a reluctant Messiah” and 2) “One”… Then read Ayn Rand’s “We The Living” and “The Virtue of Selfishness”…
Then juxtapose what you have just learned upon the background of your understanding of bible stories and have a great discussion…
I wish everyone a happy, safe and successful 2010!
gg
Honestly, growing up in a Christian home has shown me that believing does not always have to be seeing, or even experiencing. I truely believe that Noah’s ark is factual. If anyone actually takes the time to note that Naoh let three birds fly out to find land. In the end of the story, the only bird to return is the dove, carrying an olive branch within its mouth to show Noah that God had somewhere for him to go. The pictures shown above are from mountain ranges that at the time would have been from the reasonable area, if the world was flooded there could have been mountain ranges that were not completely washed over. God had a plan for Noah, his family, and the animals aboard. The comment above is almost infuriating due to the fact that he claims a group of men rewrote the records over time to fit a new emporer’s “needs” for control yet make his job more leisurely because this “religious idea” somehow depreciates the responsibility a ruler was to have by saying that God will take care of you for suffering. We’re not talking about Buddhism or Hinduism here, we’re talking about Christianity. Christians aren’t just supposed to “give it all to God” to reape the benefits, they’re supposed to give their hearts to the lord in order to become a more morally correct, and soft hearted person. It’s not for the benefit of God, but in general it’s for the benefit of humanity as a whole. Honestly people, quit being so litteral and please, start looking at the message to the story. As for Noah’s Ark, God had a plan, and just because people don’t like what he had as an ida for the world they’re making up ways to falsify it. The mountain top was ahere Moses was sent to retrieve the ten commmandments, a list of rules from God in a sense to make this world a better place for humanity, why can Noah’s place for resting and bettering of the world, not ALSO be the mountain top? Oh yeah, one last thing, if you’re going to put down over 3,000 yearrs of documentation, you hed better have something better to fill it’s place than two books based on ONE MANS OPINION. thanks. I hope one day we can all learn to come to a peace rather than trying to be so bellicose towards everyone else’s belief systems. I can tolerate other people’s beliefs and opinions, I really just don’t appreciate others bashing mine.
goodnight.
Way to go, Danae!
God clearly states that we need to live by faith and not by sight. Yes in the past God has done miracles and he can still do those things. Thomas was a disciple of Jesus and after spending years with him and hearing his promise to rise again he after hearing of his resurrection didnt believe until he touched his hands. Noah did build an ark and all animals did get on the ark. Animals can hibernate. Even in the desert there are shrimp that are in eggs. And rains that seldom come even over 20 or more years between upon contact with water are alive. God says we cannot comprehend the things of God. I know God because I accepted him and he has changed my life. Why would noone want to believe in God who gives hope and a promise of life anyway? The devil has decieved many. Come on people lets really study the word. Christian,Muslim,atheist. Dont be afraid. If anyone is wrong then we will end up the same way we came. As dirt. God is real and so is the story of Noah, and all other stories in the Bible. God bless you and feel free to write.
ALL of these comments and arguments and whatever you want to call them are exactly why I do not think religion should be debated because people will believe what they want to believe and usually what they believe gives them some form of comfort, whether it be that God gives them comfort or knowing that since they have opened their eyes to the truth of the world and universe they are somehow more enlightened. Religion should not be debated because we will never know the truth and its purely a waste of time because all it does is cause anger and hurt. Of course, I’m sure you all know that us humans are the best creatures at causing anger and hurt.
I am spiritual and believe in God, I have my own beliefs and they make me feel great about myself and the place I live, I would never argue with others because I think everyone should feel happy with their religious or non-religious views.
I happened to be talking about this with a friend a few days ago, and they had some interesting points. Some people believe that there weren’t as many species back then, so there wouldn’t have been nearly as many animals as there are today. Like how they can trace the genetics of all canines back to three ancestors, and they probably would trace back to one. And you would just have two elephants that are the ancestors of all the elephant species.
Another thing they said was: what if the animals were all too young to kill each other? So far we’ve assumed that they all came as adults, but what if they didn’t?
Both of these would also provide much more space.
Oh, you want more details? Fine. There were only 55 different kinds of dinosaurs, and not all them were huge. You also have to consider that the dinosaurs on the Ark were teenagers or young adults- maybe even eggs. t Noah had 8,000 animal pairs. Horses, zebras, and donkeys descended from ONE horse-like kind, so Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs and wolves are from a single canine kind, so hundreds of different dogs species were not needed.
The Ark measured 460 x 75 x 44 feet, with a volume of about 1.52 million cubic feet. 16,000-plus animals would have occupied much less than half the space in the Ark.
i would condsider the Qur’an a misleading manual. it displayes hate and violence to those who are not of the islamic faith. Muhammad the author of the Qur’an was visted by “an angel” whom continuously choked muhammad violently and forcing him to write a false religion. in the bible, read hebrews, that it will state that angels, when visited by one, you feel peace and if you know your bible they are not violent. Muhammed when first visited was very confused about what he had expierenced so that he asked his wife khadija and she also did not know what to make of it. read more about false religion in the bible matthew 7:15, 24:11, 24:24, mark 13:22, luke 6:26, 2peter 2:1, 1john 4:1… also i agree with the statement directly above. Questions such as “how did noah get the huge dinosaoures in the ark or the huge animals like elephants and rihnos?” have obviously not done thier homework and are just guessing and assuming… read genesis chapter 6 and 7.
MARK… God made Lucifer but he didnt make him evil. He chose to be evil… he gave the angels free will just as he gave us free will. Lucifer chose to be evil and turn from God. He wanted to be higher then God and the angels that followed Lucifer also chose to be his evil helpers… to make someone evil would be not giving them a fair chance to free will. either to chose to be evil or to chose not to be. God is a just God. fair and divine nothing evil comes from him. Read Isaiah 14:12 the fall of Lucifer
Ah but Sabrina and Jessica you are viewing the world from just that one text..and that a book is telling you what is true and what is false…I would say that reading the bible for the answer to a question is not a good source. It tells a lot of things…and yet there are thousands of other religions out there, and some of them say what you say “look into our religious texts for the answers”. Just because the knowledge is in a book, does not mean it is true. But as I nor anyone else for that matter know whether or not there is a god I do not think an answer to someones question should be to look in the bible because that is a biased view point. The bible gives answers but I do not think they are the only ones or that they are true in that matter. They might be somewhat helpful…like a horiscope or a fourtune teller…… I am not telling you to change your faith..I am only suggesting that maybe you look where the other person is coming from and lead them based on where they are from and what they believe in not soley on what you believe.
Sabrina and Jessica… Lucifer only became evil after being tossed from Heaven. Not to take sides, but his only crime was loving God too much. Lucifer refused to bow down and serve the human race, lesser beings than himself. So he did not listen to God and a war broke out in heaven. Lucifer and his angels were banned from heaven and God created Hell.
As far as Mark’s comment… We are simple people, we learne from pain and suffering. The mistakes we make provide us with knowledge and experience. If you have, say, six children (heaven forbid!) are you going to run around after them for the rest of your life, preventing them from falling when they run, or preventing the school bully from bearing the crap out of your little boy because he’s a bit too femmenin for the likes of him? Are you going to be there every second of every day preventing every accident and mishap that happens to occure?
I didn’t think so. Think things through before asking stupid questions or making pointless statements. And no, God never made evil, us humans did. Satan is simply a by-product of our creation.
i can see there are still lots and lots of people who doesn’t believe in God..
If any of you people actually read God’s word you will know that God can do all things. You a human at max can only access a third of your brain power. Compared to God we cannot possibly understand how he does things. All the evolutionist crap is based on Charles Darwin’s Grandfather not him. Charles Darwin also became a Christian before he died. Now if that isn’t the biggest F you to Evolutionist i don’t know what is. Plus the fact that Russia won’t let anybody go in the area that is not from that country to go see the ark or be in its same region says something. You might ask then how did they get the pictures. Simple, the people in Russia took the picture and somehow illegally brought it to American soil. And since we can’t understand how god works. Man decides to make up these retarded answers that don’t even make since. You should know that in the bible God formed Adam from the dirt and Scientists say that we “evolved” from fish right.well explain this A person’s skin is mostly made out of fiber and tissue, but a small percentage (about 7 percent) is made up of certain type of rock sediment and gold. Believe it or not. Where does that stuff come from. The ground duh. You see were I’m getting at. My teacher at school one day ate a bucket of chicken and sucked all the bones clean. Then he put it out on the window for five days. Then he took the bones to a lab that specializes in bones and fossils. The stupid scientist told him that the bone was supposedly 250,000 years old. He only left the chicken for five days. You see how America really is. You wonder why were in this economic down term. Because we do not have any common sense. To put it in a nutshell Christianity is a 110 percent correct and man is flat out wrong. Trust in God and follow him he will help you understand. I’m no pastor I’m just a normal person like you. I just want you to see How superior God is and believe in Him. It would be a shame for you to burn in hell for eternity.
Michael, You sound a bit overwhelmed, also it is not up to you to judge others for their choices. Now if God wanted all humans to believe in him he would not have given us free will. And honestly No teacher has enough money to get a bone analysis for fun, also the chicken had not been killed the same day that your teacher ate it…think. I would bet that that teacher is highly religious (probably a religious school teacher) and gave you that as an example but they were lying. Just my thoughts.
Oh and you say tat if you read the word of god you will find that…. Okay well that is under the assumption that the book which tells a story of god is true. How do you know if that is true?
And I do not choose to believe in something out of fear of not believing in it. Did you know that the concept of hell was not even brought into the Christian belief system until a long time after they gained many followers Across Europe? And they reason hell was created was to keep their followers, it is almost like oppression, if you do not do what I say you are bad, if you are different you are bad, etc. It is a threat which was created to scare people into not leaving the religion (or to join).
Personally I feel if it makes someone happy to be religious and believe in a god then by all means who am I to judge or stop that? But I do have problems with people who become angry that other people are not a part of their faith system. That is how war starts (look in the history books). And I am pretty sure it is stated in the religious texts that it is not up to humans to judge others and tell them what to believe.
So calm down please, and although you do not have to believe in it I think it would be benificial for you to read about other perspectives. The world is an emmensly large place, and what you know is just a fraction of what other information is out there.
Lisa, i respect that you don’t judge people by their faith. but i have a question. you asked Michael how he knew that the bible was true. well… how do you know that the bible isn’t true?
i am sad to say that i have noticed that there r alot of nonbelivers attacking christian beliefes on this website. i ask you nonbelievers why are you coming onto a website that is about the christian beliefe and then attacking them? i don’t think that you would appreciate it if others did the same to you. maybe if you don’t like or believe christian beliefe then maybe you shouldn’t go to sites that are mainly about the christain beliefe.maybe you should think about why you were compelled to come onto this website. maybe jesus put the notion into your heart? but who am i to tell you what to do? it was just a sugjestion.
Krista Edgens, this is not a website about Christian beliefs. Also, you will note that there have been plenty of attacks from christians & non-christians alike.
This blog is about being skeptical. This post is about people using science to justify their faith. Click on the links, please, to find articles about the search for Noah’s Ark, which if found will “prove” god is real. That is the topic. It’s the comments that have turned this into a christian vs skeptic debate. Please remember that many Christians don’t regard the story of Noah’s ark as literally true.
But, on the other hand, feel free to talk about anything you like. Thanks for visiting, and try some of the other posts while you’re here!
weather it is noah’s ark or not, who knows. Looks like the ark as described in text, it’s practicly the perfect size as described in the text, it’s a man made huge wooden ship. It’s clear to me that the bible is the true word of Christ. The simple idea that we live on the planet earth that is just the right amount of sun light to grow crops,give warmth, habitable for human and animal life, The earth is at the perfect tilted angle and rotates at the perfect speed to give us day and night winter and summer. It it clear to me that Christ is behind all of this. some people will always bash christ, they always have. Come on, people like us murdered the guy for being perfect and proclaiming to be the savior. not to mention eye witnessed miricals…no big deal. We will all be judged by christ weather we belive in him or not. When that time comes, it will be too late for some. We argue back and forth about religion, read the bible or attend a christ folling church and ask questions.
For all of you that think you have it all figured out, you can’t explain how animals came together and didn’t eat each other. Well explain how the boat got on top of the mountain. Doesn’t that sound just as crazy as wolves on the boat not eating lambs?? But yet, it’s up on the mountain. Once you figure out how the boat got on the mountain, then it will make sense to you how the animals didn’t eat each other. It’s not just a bunch of Christians coming together to tell a cute little story. Funny enough, why are you on the web site? Especially if you think it sounds crazy.
Great point Deb. The bible also says that when Jesus returns it will be a time like that of Noahs day. People in his time did not believe the flood was coming and look what happened. God loves every human and wants a relationship with them. Please pray this prayer for salvation. Afterall, Jesus is the ark that saves us from hell, so we need to get into him. Please pray this….dear heavenly father forgive me of my sins and I now ask Jesus to be my Lord and savior. Please fill me with your holy spirit and help me to grow in grace and knowledge of you. I ask this in Jesus name. Start reading the bible everyday and pray often. See you in heaven!
btw…you think this is crazy, you should look at other things that are evidence of gods creation…like the bible codes, sodom turing to brimstone…the reason why you can’t figure it out is becuase you’re not god. But before you go spouting off about this being bs or making jokes about gods holy words you better make sure it’s true. God loves but he will not be mocked..
p.s. btw…this is gods evidence of his miraculous ways! I’ve never been to the moon have you? Can you explain how to get there? Maybe in a 1000 years, people will think Neil Armstrong was just a legend or just a cute story too..
previous to the flood all man and animals were vegetarian. and you never kno god could have put the animals into hibernation mode so noah wouldnt have to worry bout feeding them etc
I’ve been following this blog now for awhile. Funny, the reason I came here in the first place is I just liked the cute drawing of the ark. I have got to say that there certainly is an entire philosophical and intellectual “rainbow” represented here. What I do hope that all contributors to this blog will do, is take a stoic, sober read through all its many interesting and diverse entries. If you can suspend your own opinion for a minute and look objectively, I think you will find two constants: 1) nobody really knows anything for sure and 2) for a bunch of self proclaimed Christians, forgiveness is blatantly absent here.
Regarding believing without proof: This is the essence of mythology; whether sacred or secular. It requires those who want to believe to do so on the say-so of others. If you do it long enough, you call it “faith”. You could also just call it “habit” The price of changing your tune would be finding yourself no longer welcome at your family’s gatherings, so even if you do decide to change your beliefs, you keep it to yourself and just play along so as not to get the wrath and scorn. Regarding the absence of forgiveness, this is actually unforgivable hypocrisy! Again, for a bunch of self proclaimed Christians to fail in this category yields the full judgment and wrath of Jesus himself – Did you not learn anything from the crucification story? To declare verbal war on fellow bloggers with different ideas is certainly not “Christian”. Heck, lets have another holy-war and kill more people for disagreeing over something as fluid and dynamic as the story of the ark, the bible… I’m sure God will approve… (eek)
What I hope everyone recognizes is that in most cases and to varying extents, everyone here believes something that their families told them to believe when they were very young and had no source of knowledge outside their parents. The same is true for Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Confucians, Mormons, heck even Druids. It is clan behavior at its epitome.
Shortly after you were born, you were taken through the rituals of your parents’ religion, gently forced to bond with their religious friends as your social network, confirmed into a faith at an age when you still believed in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, and guided to keep your associations within the framework of those who had similar beliefs. You were never asked if you wanted to learn about something different. You might have been told that anyone that didn’t believe in your particular version of Christianity was evil and would be going to hell for sure. You did not have the capacity to question. You wanted to please your parents. You were an obedient and loving son or daughter and did what you were told. I know that was the case for me.
It is highly rare that anyone comes to these beliefs on their own, through their own search for truth and discovery process. Religion is NOT spirituality or godliness. It is a socio-political construct created by men who believe they are right, and then arrogantly force others to abide by their conclusions, eventually turning the belief system into a real “government” – complete with rules, laws, prosecutions and punishments for deviating from the set canon. Does anyone remember the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Great Schism? Those are just examples within Christianity. The history of all religions are rife with instances which prove that religion is no more than a vehicle for power and control over men, by other men, using the most powerful fear-control tool available, the threat to damn your soul into eternal oblivion – that is why billions of people still subscribe. They hedge their bets so just in case these manipulators are right, at least they’ll get a seat on the back of the heavenly bus. See, for a religion to survive, it requires a self-sustaining framework, a motivational force, a demand for belief in some magical unexplainable event(s), and an historical record which is totally subjective and dubious where truth is concerned. I guess some people would rather believe in fiction than fact… just like in the movie, “The Matrix”.
It took a long time for me to “hear the voice of God” (whatever you want that to mean) in my own heart and mind and come to understand that 99% of everything that people have written down in the bible and other great works of religious dogma, is just good storytelling (like we do with kids), used to help simple people understand complex ideas about the universe and social order. The other 1% is what powerful, influential leaders added to use religion as a fear-factor tool to have control over other men.
When more Christians finally come to grips with these understandings and realize that Jesus’ MESSAGE is the only thing that is important, we will see a wonderful change in the landscape of human thought. You do not need a religion to understand a great idea. Just the ability to read and an open heart and mind. You do not need all the guilt, pomp, ritual, clerical class, church buildings, social gatherings, Mega-parishes with their Hollywood style produced Technicolor, Surround, Evangelical, Broadcast Networks services. If people would walk away from these constrictive and unnatural spiritual prisons and come to pray quietly under the sky, the heavens, which only God built, we might start finding peace amongst the ranks of our fellow man, both in and out of Christianity.
So there you go. I hope I did not offend too many, but I also realize some of you love to feel offended so you can do your fighting thing… its what you live for. Take care, have peace, and I hope that the light you see at the end of that long tunnel is not a Train!
Best to all!
Greg
Okay, to start off… I am not some Jesus freak, though I do believe in an all powerful being (be is as it may). Noah’s story’s been told in many religions with many different names. I have no doubt that there was a great flood, science has proved it more or less… But all these theories that makes no sense whatsoever. Sure, the Bible tell these wonderful stories, but the guy that put the Bible together wasn’t even a Christian. He was a roman emperor (known today as Saint Constantine) who wanted to use the Christians in his war and thought it best to lie to them so that they would fight with him rather than against him. It bacame known as the Roman Catholic faith. That is why Christmas falls on a Pagan Holy-day, the re-birth of the Roman Sun god.
I have spoken to a Catholic priest about this and other incedents the C. Church was involved in and as expected, denied everything as heresy. He even had the odasity to judge my sexual orientation (as most of you streight boy probably will do).
So, I have no doubt that there was a great flood, that some man, his family and a gazillion animals floated around the globe for heaven only knows how long… Wether it was God, Krishna, Allah, Buddah or who the hell ever. The case os closed, Nobody cares!!!!
Blessed be
Fairy Blessings
Goddess Bless
God Bless
Allah be with you.
Hare bloody Krishna
Whatever,
C Ya!
well i to have wondered about this story and i to have asked questions! now what i believe is that every story in the bible is true. when you think about it why would noah bring full size animals unto the ark, when he can bring baby animals! also noah did live till he was 9 hundred years old. there was no pollution at this time. also since noah did live long his body must of changed like his ears growing and his arms growing and his back arched, where i think people have confused this as cave men… and Jesus was and is the living God! you know alot of the bible has been written by so many people who have never met. and they all advise the same thing. who god is and how he has been apart of life and how we as people can be saved by believing and knowing that Jesus Christ is our Savior. know matter what there is nothin you can lose by believing in him and following christian life! if there is a God you will live eternal life and if there is not a God then you still lived a happy and loving life.
God bless you all and i hope that you will get to know and have a relationship with God!
i belive that is the resting spot of the ark. did you know adam would have been 2157 years old after the flood when the whole earth was dry. but adam died at age 930, 56 years after lamech (noah’s dad) was born. pretty cool uh. but start reading and STUDYING the bible it’s an awesome book. im on gen. 21 and read an interesting stoy about lot in gen. 19:30 but i want to read the whole bible. all the stories are true. B.I.B.L.E (basic instructions before leaving earth)
So, discussing the Bible… After a little book I read, I have my doubts that the Bible is as acurate and true as the church would want people to believe it is…
A couple of little thoughts… The Bible preaches love… telling that God is love…
The Church brutally murdered innocent men and women with their witch hunt in the sixteenth and seventeenth century (I actually think since the 14th century…)
They also destroyed the Templar Knights and the Cathars. Then there was also the Illuminati.
All af these groups mentioned had nothing to do with “the Devil” as the Church lead people to believe. The Templars had money, the King wanted it and the Church complied with the slaughtering of the Knights.
The Illuminaty were men of science. The church didn’t agree and they were tortured and killed…
Compared to the Catholic Church, Hitler’s little massacre was a minor incedent.
Why all the drama? Mureder is murder, be it in God’s name or just for the heck of it.
I do believe that some of the Bible’s contents might be based on actual events, but it’s been changed to suit man’s desires.
Greg, what are you going on about, sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Sounds like you like a good fight by your hour long blog comments. I watched a good clip on hell last night. An athiest had a dream in which God allowed him to experience hell. He found everything to be in the bible as stated with many descriptions. It changed his life and the life of his wife forever. They gave their hearts to God. The reason why I’m saying all this, is because we can look at noahs ark and debate whether it’s true or not, but if we get to hell we can’t debate whether it’s true or not anymore. I say this in all love. God is not about everyones thoughts and feelings about truth, but it’s based on the word of god. Gods ways are higher than our thoughts and if you’re doing this then you’re blinded by the god of this world. 2 Corinthians 4:4. I’ve known many a people that have asked god to reveal themselves to him with a trueness in their heart to say are you real or not. Before you go on outruling him, maybe you should ask god to give you a very obvious sign if he is real in your life and calling you to himself. People that don’t know god, consider us christians to be judging them. But the fact is we just have an urgency to let you know of the truth we know that you’re being blinded from. If you always try to come up with your own thoughts and words, then you have become a god in your own eyes. You will always then be in a state of confusion and god will give you over to a reprobate mind. Please do yourself a favor, for the sake of ruling god out, ask him to show himself to you I bet you will see him in your life. If God doesn’t reveal himself to you, please blog deb and call me a liar. I gaurantee you will not be saying. I say this with all assurance. Deb
To the guy saying that the Bible is false and the Quran is the truth. I would just like to let you know that the Bible came before the Quran. The Quran bases a lot of its morals off of the Bible.
There were several different versions of the Quran written, most were burnt and they kept one.
The Bible has been changed several times, but not in the way you’re thinking.
It wasn’t changed in this way: Hebrew/Greek Version–>latinversion–>KingJamesVersion—NIV,etc.
NIV is a direct translation of the Hebrew/Greek translation. And yes, the Quran HAS been changed several times. It was passed around orally for 23 years until it was all written down. Muhammed got his information for the Quran from the Angel Gabriel, and had his followers write it because he couldn’t write himself. I find that to be a little odd that the supposed prophet of God couldn’t write.
Also, the Quran was written 500 years after the Bible, and it claims things wrong in the Bible that the Bible had warned the Quran would do 500 years before.
Just trying not to lead others from the true faith that is in Jesus Christ.
many quranic verses have been proven by and coincide with science such as the big bang theory. embrolology, mountain formation and muxh more. furthermore it is the only book in the world which has remained unaltered since first revealed. look for any link regarding quran and science for further information. The bible as we know undergoes regular revision and either ommition or addition of text, which leaves many accounts unreliable so trying to find the final resting place of the arc based on unreliable information is going to prove difficult. However, since there seems to be cover-ups relating to Mt Arafat, one cant help but wonder if there is really arcifacts and proofs to be found there. For if that was the case, then current world order would most definately change. But it is also possible that its nuclear weapons they’re devoloping up there, hence the big hush. Now back to my first point, Quran is being proven by science verses revealed yrs ago are only being discovered today and its not just one or two chance guesses. And if scientific fact is proving a religious book to contain the truth about the material world around us, then it should not be so difficult to accept other information from this book, such as the floods, as also to be true. Not trying to convert anyone but scientific facts are abundent for those who really want to see them, u just need look – don’t miss the wood for the trees.
Lisa and Johan, There never will be a real ship from a far planet with “human’s” on it, because this is impossible (unless we send someone from here, and they come back). Such things do not exist. However, you may see something like this that seems to contradict the Bible. It will be fake. It will be evil spirits, the Creator’s enemies, trying to deceive you. And they will succeed, because they already have succeeded in convincing you that the Bible is not the book that our all-knowing Creator gave us. That is so sad. But the point here is that, this would not change my relationship of friendship with the Creator. He has already warned of such deceptions. The question for you is, what will you do when you see the nailprints in the hands of Jesus and realize that you were the one who was deceived? Your world would be turned upside down. As to Noah’s Ark, what if the remains were found and put into a museum and you could see them? Would you believe the Bible then? What would it take for you to seriously consider the claims of the Bible, the oldest (and unaltered) book in the world, the one whose first chapter was personally handed by the Creator to the first human and was added to by the Creator over the next 4000 years and yet is consistent from beginning to end, a miracle?
True Christians, true believers in Jesus Christ as God the Creator, mature Christians, knowledgeable Christians want to Love as God loves. They do not want to hurt anyone. They do not want to murder or steal or commit adultery, etc. Sometimes they get tripped up and later are really sorry, but they do not want to live in ways that make themselves and God ashamed. True Christians did not carry on the Crusades that you are talking about and have not carried out mass murders around the world. Not ever. If you think so, you do not know history and/or Chrisitanity. Just because someone calls himself a Christian or because someone calls someone else a Christian does not make that a fact. Jesus said, “You will know them by their fruit”. Over time, a true Christian will bear good fruit, consistently. Like a tree may bear good fruit with an occasional worm-eaten one or bird-pecked one or misshapen one, so a Christian may occasionally have a bad day or a bad deed, but not as a consistent life-long pattern. On the other hand, there are some groups in the world who do actually endorse killing other people. There are, unfortunately, lots of such groups: KKK, Hitler’s Nazi’s (based on evolution and on its false idea of inferior and superior races), abortionists, communists, terrorists, genocidal tyrants, and some religions. Christianity, by the way, is not a religion–it is a personal friendship with Jesus Christ our Creator. It is only a problem if someone abuses it, misuses it as if it were a religion.
If the Quran says there was a Big Bang that brought the universe into being, then it contradicts itself when it teaches that the universe was created. The Big Bang is a discredited and unscientific concept, full of more holes than the universe has room for.
Dear Deb:
I’m sorry. It seems to me that you are unable to follow my writings. Otherwise you would not be suggesting to me that I call upon God for a visit. We have coffee together every morning. I can tell you that he is greatly displeased with everyone being so arrogant as to think they have the right answer. He’s left many clues for people around the world, and his message is not tied up in Christianity all alone. I hate to break it to you, but God is not just the God of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Druids or even just Earthlings… and he is growing tired of everyone claiming him for themselves and saying they know what he’s thinking.
Just yesterday, he was actually considering of just abandoning everyone on Earth for a year or so, just to teach them a lesson… fortunately, I talked him out of it.
What is most important in God’s eyes is everyone’s ability to love and accept everyone else, just for who they are and what they are striving to become. He wants to see if we are really learning how to get along on our own, since he’s really busy creating other life forms in other parts of the Universe. Each one is special to him and you certainly can’t expect a Dad to abondon his new babies for his older kids.
I made sure to put in a good word for you, since you seem to really care about him. He’s sorry he couldn’t get back to you in time to answer that last prayer, but said not to be concerned, that he gave you the tools you will need to get it done on your own. He figured you’d enjoy the fruits more if you felt you actually had something to do with your own success.
Take care and don’t worry about the future. Just concentrate on the present and keep faith. Everything will work out just fine.
Of course, you have no wayof knowing if I’m teling you the truth or not. No fats. Only faith… and if your faith has become shallow or contrived and you decide to brand me a heritic for sharing these insight, you can be certain that he’ll notice that, too. I guess it all comes down to those precious tests of faith, doesn’t it?
Peace and success!
Greg
P.S. Happy Valentines Day to everyone…
I hope you found a bit of love & happiness today.
Back to Noah’s Ark. How large? About 450′ long by 75′ wide by 45′ high; that’s about 1.5 million cubic feet.
Modern container ships hold steel boxes that are 8′ by 8′ by 40′. Noah’s Ark could have held over 500 of these containers.
How many animals? Air-breathing land animals and flying animals include birds and many small creeping things and a few larger animals. The average size of all of these is about the size of a small sheep approximately. Only two of each created kind were required with just a few exceptions of a few medium-sized animals like sheep. What is a created kind? Here’s some examples: two dogs, any two dogs, for example, a domestic wolf and a pet mutt. (All animals were originally “domesticated”–they only became “wild” later after people starting hurting and hunting and abusing them and failed to care for them.) Horses–a zebra and a palomino. And so on. Cats–a tiger and a bobcat. I am not saying that these are the real examples, the the sorts of pairs that could have been used. Back then, they were tame and were vegetarians. (In zoos and some homes today, many so-called carnivores are fed a vegetarian diet.) Maybe 8000 to 10,000 pairs of animals were on board. Remember, very few are large, and all would have been young enough to be of breeding age shortly after getting off the Ark, so they would not have been granddaddy size. No super-large dinosaurs, only younger, smaller ones. There are only about 50 different kinds of dinosaurs at most (from which various species or “breeds” came), and most of them aren not very big to begin with. It’s just that the larger ones are the more famous ones. How did 8 people care for these animals? There are more ways than we can imagine. Since early people were created perfectly and had a bettr environment and a better diet and had more use of their brain capacity, they probably had technology that we cannot dream of, but even if they did use it, there are still many creative ways to care for large quantities of creatures. Farmers and ranchers and lab techs do it routinely. Where did all the water come from? The historical document says it came from stored pools beneath the surface of the earth and from above our present atmosphere. Genesis 1 says that the water above had been stored there since the second day of creation. Any geologist will tell you that the surface of the earth did not always look like it does today; it did not have the same mountains and valleys or even the same continents. So, we simply cannot think in terms of today’s maps. When the Ark was loaded and the door was shut (by God), the earth shook, the waters below shot up, volcanos erupted (much of what comes from a volcano is water, by the way). Great tectonic movement of the globe, settling down of the land, rising up later of other land. But not until all land was first covered by water. Rain fell for 40 days and 40 nights. If you have ever lived in a place that is very rainy and have seen the mudslides and avalanches and uprooting of trees and death of animals and people and landslides and complete rearrangement of topography, you’ll begin to get an idea. But only a beginning idea, because today it does not rain that long over the entire globe at one time. If you have not lived in a rainy area that may get some rain for about 40 days in a row, but not continuously 24/7 and only in a limited area, than look at the land around the globe and consider this: About 75% of the crust of the earth today is sedimentary, meaning it was laid down by flood waters; it was once soft sediment that has dried and hardened into rock or has recrumbled into smaller parts. The rest of the crust is rock that was once under intense heat or pressure and then shoved up. In the sedimentary majority of the earth’s surface and also below water in what was once part of the surface, there are billions and billions of dead things that were buried when the sediment was still soft in the flood water and that either dissolved or that turned to the fossils that we now find. This is simple geology facts. The historical document, the Bible, tells us why and how this came to be. During the year of the global Flood, the globe was like batter in a mixing bowl, being churned and shoved up and down. Nothing looks the same as it did before, anymore than a finished cake looks like the ingredients before you started. Mountains were pushed up and valleys subsided. It took about 11 months after the rain stopped for the water to lower enough to allow the inhabitants of the Ark to get off onto dry land. Meanwhile, the Ark had been resting on a mountain for the last seven months of the year that the Ark was inhabited. That was about 4500 years ago, according to the record. The Ark may have disintegrated or may be still hidden from sight. We don’t know. Some people think thay have seen at least a portion of it. It probably landed over in the general area of the Mid-east or “near East”, based on information given in the historical documents and discovered by archaeologists. (Early civilizations seem to have been in that area.)
Population studies indicate that today’s population of humans and animals started from the numbers recorded in the Bible at the approximate time recorded therein. Every culture or ethnic group (NOT religion–this has nothing to do with religion) in the world has a record, written or repeated vocally, of a unique flood in which only a few survived. This is part of history. And if the Flood was not global, then what does the rainbow mean? The rainbow was not needed before the Flood, becaue the earth was watered from below, with a much more efficient hydologic system than today’s often harsh rain and hurricanes and destructive weather. Look at fossil plants that were able to grow so much bigger and better than they do today. Same with animals in the fossil record. The rainbow was given after the Deluge, because it would be part of the present system of weather, which sometimes is good but often destroys crops. The rainbow was a promise that there would never again be a global flood. If the flood of Noah’s day was somehow only a local flood, then God has broken His promise thousands of times, and how did the Ark get on a mountain top in a local flood. Fossils and geology scream out about a worldwide flood. Genetics tries to tell people that the globe was populated from a few pairs a few thousand years ago. Unfortunately, today’s schools gloss over a lot of these facts, because they are currently politically incorrect, not in line with the party religion that is in vogue now.
I wish we could find an intact Ark. But people wouldn’t believe it anymore than they believe the historical Document that already exists, so why bother?
Dear Greg,
First of all Jesus said he will never leave us or forsake us, that’s what hell is for. I don’t know about this God you say you serve. I noticed that you said all these people are arrogantt in their thinking, but it seems very arraogant that you said you talked God out of abandoning the world for a year. Where is your evidence for all of this? Is it possible that you’re a God in your own eyes (based on your own theories and conclusions)?? God say’s he is a God to all who accept His son Jesus. Jesus said when you see me you see the father. Furthermore, the bible says,which is the holiest book of all, that if you take away or add to this book, you will get cursed. So the God of the bible, the great I AM, says that His ways are higher than ours. We can’t come up with our own philosophies and ideas and call them Gods’. As much as you say Christians are arrogant, you seem like your so displeased with us. So what’s so wrong with believing in Jesus and knowing He is the only way. What do you have against it? I have a friend that went to UCLA to study evolution, trying to disprove God. She came to the conclusion that their is a God and it’s through Jesus Christ. God now uses her in many ways. I know you say you talk to God, but when is the last time you talked with Jesus. The bible says Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. God blesses me so much that you don;t have to worry about me and I’ll be praying for you.
Deb
To all who still don’t believe that Noahs Ark is true, this comes straight from the bible…Genesis 8
And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged. The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained. And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
Deb,
I think the main problem is that saying these things are true and fact are also in a way putting down other peoples beliefs. To say “God is the only way” is in a sense saying that all other ways are false! That is what is wrong with saying those things. Because you may feel 100% that that the Christian God and Jesus is real, but that is because that is what you were taught and influenced to believe. People in other cultures who are not Christian or Jewish or “Biblical” when it comes to religion have their own belief in a God or Gods that is not the same as what you know, and that is because they were brought up learning about it that way. So you saying your God is the only way is in a sens no different then someone else form another religion saying that their God or Gods are the only way.
Think About it.
Lisa:
Thank you.
Deb:
So you can stop saying I don’t know what I’m talking about… My Mom was almost a nun (all but final vows). I went to Christian School K through 3rd, studied religion and the bible all through Grade School & High School, then studied more in College, especially the writings of Paul. I considered going into the priesthood. When my grandmother was alive, I would walk to church with her every single morining every summer when I was out of school. I was the music minister at our church, wrote dozens of sacred songs, performed at two servces every Sunday and was at the church working on various projects 3 other days a week! I was immersed in Christianity for the first half of my life and believed everything you believe now, on blind faith.
Then ond day I had an epiphany. I was struck down with energy and could not move. God spoke to me and told me it was all bullshit created by men in order to have a hierarchy of indesputable control over other men. He directed me to tell people the same truth Jesus tried to tell everyone. That you don’t need anything, anyone or any religion to find your path to God. The path to God is every living thing’s birthright and cannot be ransomed, traded or lost to sin. All you have to do is let go and fall into it. This is what Jesus told everyone. This is what got him crucified by the very people tha were supposed to be his family. This is what gets me crucified by you.
God has tried to send messages through to all people on earth, in ways they can understand based on their different cultures. I’ve said it a thousand times now. No book of religion is a real history. They are all stories with the same underlying messages. You can’t expect children to understand quantum physics, so you tell them a story that gets the point accross without all the technical details. That is what the bible is: quantum physics for gradeschoolers. Likewise, you can’t expect people to read languages they don’t know and you can’t expect a culture to understand metaphors that do not apply. So that is why there are different versions of the path to discover God. It’s simply been translated by God into neat packages that fit the different cultures so they could understand.
So here you are, preaching to the world that you know better, just because you were raised that way. In my world, God belongs to everyone and everyone to God, no strings attached.. In your world, you have to perform tricks, know the magic words, profess man-made doctrines and then tell everyone else that they are going to hell unless they believe the same as you. Nice!
So Deb, I think that I am going to conclude my efforts to enlighten you, because from what I can see, you would rather walk around with the flashlight your parents gave you than the sun above that God provided. I hope that when the batteries run out, you give the creator a moment to touch you without all the mumbo-jumbo you were taught to follow. You might have an epiphany of your own.
Godspeed, best of luck and happiness…
I’m outta here…
Greg
P.S. Listen to Lisa.
Deb:
P.S. Jesus is and has been my role model. He told me once in a dream that if I knew what was good for me, I’d shut up and stop trying to tell people the truth, otherwise I’d end up right up their beside him on that damn cross.
Let sleeping dogs lie…
Greg
Greg and Lisa,
F
Greg and Lisa,
First of all, whoever told you I was raised as a Christian? I came to believe on my own through my own experiences after I picked up the bible and starting asking Jesus to reveal himself to me. Through that I experienced something that had never happened to me before in my life. I got to know Jesus as a best friend. I took His word, everything in the bible as true, nobody has brainwashed me! That was a choice I made on my own. When I say I’m Christian, the definition means to be a follower of Jesus, not religious rituals or going to church. Greg what you went through was rituals they do in the catholic church. As far as you both saying I don’t accept anybody else’s religion, that is hypocritical, considering you guys are so ill against Christians. There is nothing to think about, you both follow a universalistic way that says all ways lead to God. Do you know that all these different religions have a final destination of their own and feel that they are the only way. Muslims believe that Christians and Jews should be killed and if you don’t believe me then find it out for yourself. It’s in the Koran. What do you think 9-11 was all about, for America and our association with Israel. Muslims believe that if you don’t become like them, then you’re going to hell. Believing in Jesus is accepting his atonement on the cross for our sins. Greg it sounds like you believed in Jesus at one time as being the only way to get to God and heaven. Sounds like you’ve been hurt by religion and I’m not asking you to accept manmade religion. Jesus is all about relationship not rituals and religion. I don’t like religion myself. I believe that there are people at even Christian churches that might not be seeing Jesus, because they might not have a relationship with him. You can’t halfway believe in Jesus. You have to believe in everything he said and not choose what works for you. A quick story… I used to go into a store everyday where there was a nice Muslim man working. He told me that he could see that I had a relationship with God. He also said he was Muslim and that he believed in the same God I did. I told him that is not true and that your God is named Allah and mine is called Jehovah and I follow Jesus his son. He replied that in his religion he is taught that Jesus was a great prophet also. I told him that if you believe Jesus was a great prophet, then you would believe what he said. Jesus said he is the only begotten son of God and there was no other way to God but through Jesus. It goes to show you, that you can believe in all the religions you want, but it does not mean it’s the right way. To say all points lead to God contradicts every religion . You guys don’t really know what you’re saying here. So again you seem to be a God in your own eyes. I would rather stand for one thing that is true than all other things that are false and directly violate Jesus’s words that there is no other name under heaven by which man can be saved. In a nut shell for you to believe in all religions does not make sense because each religion has their own way. It seems to me that most people don’t want to accept Jesus because they they would have to be accountable for their sins. There is a lot of people like that out there in this world. Magic is the last thing I would practice, are you trying to say Jesus used magic? and if it was magic where do these supernatural powers come from Greg? Sounds like you’re bitter over life and over a lifestyle you might be engaged in that you know is against Gods will. See, the rituals we do don’t give us a free pass to heaven. Pharisees were religious and were the ones who brought Jesus to be crucified. You keep on going on like I’m trying to tell you to follow rituals, I’m not. You also keep indicating that I don’t have a mind of my own. Nobody, and I mean nobody forced me to believe in Jesus. I saw a true revealing of him with my own experience. I guess we are the same, as nobody forces me to think anyway that I don’t want to. In conclusion, I’m sorry that you two, are so upset that I stand for one thing than fall for anything.
P.S. You do know that Noahs ark is in the bible right? That darn Christian religion again? Huh, before you say it’s in the Muslim Koran also, there was a split off of Abraham’s seed that you would know about if you were really believing. Why again were you guys on this web site? Since a universalist “religion” does not believe the bible to be truth. Nobody is usually silly enough to say that they believe in the bible and something else at the same time.
Deb
One last Greg!
Jesus said to go and preach his good news to the whole world, so I don’t know about this dream. Why do you say you talk to Jesus and yet say everything that contradicts what he said when he was here earth???
Fulfilled Prophecies
The following prophecies concerning Jesus Christ were given in the Old Testament during the time frame of approximately 1700 BC -400 BC. These prophecies were fulfilled hundreds of years later, during Jesus Christ’s life on earth. Each of the prophecies listed below are followed in parentheses by the scripture references for both the prophecy and the fulfillment.
1. He would be born of a Virgin (Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:18).
2. He would be of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10 and Luke 3:23, 33).
3. He would be of King David’s seed (Jeremiah 23:5 and Luke 3:23, 31).
4. He would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2 and Matthew 2:1).
5. He would be a prophet (Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and Matthew 21:11).
6. He would teach with parables (Psalms 78:2 and Matthew 13:34).
7. He would be preceded by a messenger (Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1, and Matthew 3:1-2).
8. He would enter Jerusalem on a colt (Zechariah 9:9 and Luke 19:35-37).
9. He would be betrayed by a friend (Psalms 41:9 and Matthew 26:47-50).
10. He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12 and Matthew 26:15).
11. He would be forsaken by His disciples (Zechariah 13:7 and Mark 14:50).
12. The money would be thrown in the temple and used to buy the potter’s field (Zechariah 11:13 and Matthew 27:5-7).
13. He would be accused by false witnesses (Psalms 35:11 and Matthew 26:59-60).
14. He would be silent before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7 and Matthew 27:12-14).
15. He would be beaten by his enemies (Isaiah 50:6, 53:5, and Matthew 27:26).
16. He would be spit upon and beaten (Isaiah 50:6 and Matthew 27:30).
17. He would be struck in the head with a rod (Micah 5:1 and Matthew 27:30).
18. He would be mocked (Psalms 22:7-8 and Matthew 27:29, 31).
19. His hands and feet would be pierced (Psalms 22:16, Luke 23:33, and John 20:25).
Note that this was predicted hundreds of years before crucifixion was invented.
20. Men would gamble for His clothing (Psalms 22:18 and John 19:23-24).
21. He would intercede in prayer for His transgressors (Isaiah 53:12 and Luke 23:34).
22. He would suffer thirst (Psalms 22:15 and John 19:28).
23. He would be offered gall and water (Psalms 69:21 and Matthew 27:34).
24. He would cry, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me!” (Psalms 22:1 and Matthew 27:46).
25. He would be cut down in His prime (Psalms 89:45 and 102:23-24).
26. None of His bones would be broken (Exodus 12:46, Psalms 34:20, and John 19:32-33).
27. They would look upon Him whom they had pierced (Zechariah 12:10 and John 19:34).
28. He would be executed with thieves (Isaiah 53:12 and Matthew 27:38).
29. He would be buried in a rich man’s tomb (Isaiah 53:9 and Matthew 27:57-60).
Deb,
Look, What I am saying is that THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with believing in God, Christianity, Islam etc. BUT, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH TELLING OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEF IS WRONG. (Sorry about the caps but I feel that it needs to be Really Clear for you not to get offended). I don’t care if there is a God or not personally. But I DO CARE when religious fanatics go around and start telling people that what they believe in is wrong because it is different from their own belief.
Now, you say you have a relationship with Jesus, Cool. Why does what you believe have anything to do with what others should believe???? Believe what you believe and let others believe what they do. Wars have been started in the past because of people like you. People that tell others that there way is the wrong faith, and therefore those people were seen as satin worshipers or “bad” and given a lower cast etc.
If you were in a non Christian country and people kept coming up to you and telling you your faith was wrong because they Know theirs is right (Because their are other people in the world with different God(s) who have had a “connection” with their “God” too! Duh..) How would you feel having people telling you your faith is wrong????
If you really want something special stop searching for the “right way” and just follow they way that comes to you.
I am pretty sure that (Since you believe the bible is similar to a law book, and true[which is fine no prob]) IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS: Not to Judge others, and it is not your job as a human to make others believe. SO Please, STOP!
I personally only choose to interveine in the conversations when I feel I have something interesting to add, or if it is religious, if someone is on here “Preaching” that their way or belief is right and the other people who are adding to the conversation are wrong. That is NOT COOL!
Oh P.S. Allah is translated to God in English.
Greg,
Do you really think that there’s a different way then god? Well if you are one of those people then let me tell you the fact’s of the bible. After God told Noah to build a ark because he was going to flood the world he asked Noah to put all his family and all kinds of animals in pair’s on the ark. It’s amazing because god brought all kind’s of animal’s to Noah.Your probably are asking yourself so where’s the proof well you can figure this out because scientist’s had found the same ark on the same place it landed and the same specific wood and the same size god told him to make.You can look this up in genesis 6-7. I might only be 10 years old, but I know what the real truth is and I’m not going to let anyone tell me I’m wrong.
Lisa,
Let’s just say and use your imagination here, that you believed that there was really a hell. You knew many were going there. But there was only one way to get out of there. I’m not saying you do, but please use your imagination, because you knew it was a devastating place. Would you not tell people that you knew about hell and how to stay away from there? That is exactly what people are trying to make the point of on this quest to show their true belief in Jesus. Jesus said unless you accept Him as your Lord and Savior, you will not see the kingdom of heaven. That’s what my passion is all about, now whether people choose to believe or not I can’t force them, but if there really was a hell, wouldn’t you want to tell them? There are many a people converted to Christianity all day long and maybe they’re seeing something you’re just not.. Now if you had this information wouldn’t you try to get people to understand? Now whether you believe in God or not, does not change the fact He does exist. I know you don’t know all the answers about how the world was created or where your final destination is, nor will I try and force you. But with a loving urgency, I would try to get you to open your heart and mind and ask God to reveal himself to you. And by chance what if you to die tomorrow and you were in the grips of hell? Wouldn’t you be upset if nobody told you there was a way out or a way to keep you from going to hell? Think about that. Yes I know all the different religions and they were all meant to have certain beliefs and this affects how people were raised. Right now, prophecy is being fulfilled when Jesus said that the news of him would be preached throughout the whole world. We have a choice to accept or reject him. So before you get upset with me, for feeling like I have the urgency to save people from something that you seem you don’t want to accept. Just keep in mind that if you did believe like me, that you would be feeling the same way I do. Lisa I believe that you really want to know God, I can feel it. Do you see any other religion that claims that they have a relationship with their creator? No, what you see is they just have beliefs of what they were told. I was skeptic at one time to. Believe me, I was not going to be convinced easily. BUT when I felt the power of the Holy Spirit and I’m not talking about magic here, I knew I was created for a purpose to fulfill here on earth. Do you see all these all these Christians are passionate here? Is it possible, that you just don’t want to open up your heart? In the bible where is says not to judge, I think you’re using this out of context, since I read the bible all the time. It was referring to not judging the sins of unbeliever’s, for we have all fallen short of God’s glory. Jesus made the atonement for our sins and therefore we can come boldly to God’s throne of grace. But if you’re reading the bible then you would see that Jesus was trying to get many to follow Him. So was Jesus judging everyone? He said he came for the sinners and the sick to give them redemption, to bring us back to God. In conclusion, I’m sorry you feel so offended that Jesus is the only way, but before you rule him out, make sure that you have made the right decision. Now you understand why I feel passionate. Passion is what’s been making this world go around.
Deb
It seems simple to me!! God creates and we recreate. Just like every living thing on the earth. When we have children that’s what were doing! Then wow, we must of been created. Just like our children. With Noah’s ark God wanted to keep what he had created. Some say this is where science and faith emerge. Or merge, how ever you want to look at it! It seems that it takes alot more faith to not believe in God than it does to believe. Also there is more science to believe that God is real than there is science to not believe.Albert Einstein was trying to decode the bible in all the notes they found that he had left behind. He didn’t see it in his life time, but yet they have now discovered codes. With even future events. That is science at it’s best. But in this life time it will take faith. Chances are we will not always see all of the sciences of God. Who are we that God would constantly have to prove himself to us? If you don’t believe with one piece of evidense than you won’t believe with much evidense!
Sooooo…..Are we all related to Noah’s family?? And therefore all inbred??? Hmmm…so that would say it is okay for someone to be with there siblings because we are all related anyways????
Oh and that means the same for the animals too!
LOL sorry guys I couldn’t help it.
Yes, we all came from Noahs boat and all the way back to Adam and Eve. Noah had a wife and each of his 3 sons had their own wives, so yes. In essence it was inbreeding, what do you believe really happened? where do you think we came from? This behavior back then was for the godly preservation of mankind, not for the perveted way it is done today. Maybe we should tell animals how disgusting it is, they don’t seem to mind. Just becuase we think it’s disgusting now, doesn’t mean they didn’t then, just like the animals don’t.
Hmmmm…so I seemed to have not sent one of my comments :( back to you Deb.
I think the point was that there is no right way to believe (I think) because it is a constant battle between all of the different religions because there is no proof for either of them, and all of the “proof” people provide to back it up is based off of their own Biased religious text! sooooo yeah…
Anyways I am not gonna re state my opinion (mainly because I wrote a long response for you Deb and I cannot find it), enjoy your faith but I would ask that you allow other to do the same.
haha good point, I don’t know where we cam from and don’t plan on spending my life worrying about it!
Lisa,
That’s cool, peace to you
Deb, (I found it I have 8 windows open right now lol)
I understand where you are coming from (I dated a highly religious person for a very long time, so I know a lot about the subject), but I feel you should take the time to understand where other are coming from.
I do not need a god or creator to feel I have a meaning in life. I have excepted and quite well understand that if lets say for some reason the planet exploded right now that the Universe would go one and it really wouldn’t mean anything. We are so small compared to the rest of existance, yet we like to feel superior to all things, meaning we like to give ourselves reason to think everything (our existance was created for us and for a reason.
It doesn’t bother me that when I die I will be dead, I will not exist. The meaning I give to life is the meaning I make for while I am alive. I want to have the fullest longest life I can, because it is all I will ever have, and when I die the world, universe etc will go on without me. The only way I see myself “being” after I die is through people who remember me and people who I have made an impact on.
I would lik you to know that the concept of Hell was not brought about innto the Christian religion until after they had many many followers. It is a form of control through fear(I think). I refuse to live my life a set of standards and rules out of fear. That sounds counter productive to what it means to live.
But I don’t tell other people they are wrong. An example that might parallel why you say you want to tell people (because of hell) would be (and people please don’t hate me for this it is just my opinion it is not a fact, and I AM NOT SAYING that it is wrong, I am saying I think it is), On the topic of Homosexuality, I personally think it is a deformation of the human development in the body and regulation of hormones. No ones fault. I think that people who do not find the opposite sex attractive and want to mate should be helped. But I (and this is the first and hopefully only time I state what I have on this subject) do not say anything. I do not try to change them. It is a neg genetic mutation that could kill our species. An example would be to put all of the gay people on an island and if they didn’t reproduce then what? Anyways, my point is if that is what they want to do then fine let them do it, and as long as they don’t try to get me to change and be that way or anything it is all good.
Same with religion, if a person doesn’t believe in jesus then let them be. You could mention things for sure, but I feel that backing yourself with the bible as true text is the same as me backing myself with the texts of evolutionary theory as true. One answer is right, but the problem is every thinks it is the one they believe!
I would say, look at all of the poverty and psychological damage Christian missionaries have caused in Africa! Do the research and read the literature! It all there.
it’s amazing that so many people don’t know it when its right in front of their eyes.
Who says the animals all had to be fully grown? Noah took seven of each animal onboard, not 2. At the time of noahs flood, there were 35,000 kinds of animals. 35,000 fill 240 box railcars. The size of Noah’s boat can accomidate 540 rail cars. HMMMMM. Maybe it really is true. There is more proof than that, and it’s a shame you have so many pictures, but no text on the truth, just opinions of people that have been lied to since they were kids to believe that they came from a monkey, or worse yet, a rock. What a bunch of rockheads.
Lisa, No, of course, we should not cohabit with our siblings. Yes, we all came from one of the four couples that came off the Ark about 4500 years ago. However, evolutionists think we are all part of one family, too. According to them we all started with one tiny cell that divided and became two and then more and eventually evolved into us. By that reasoning, we are also part of the same family with worms and fleas. Of course, all that is impossible and imaginary. The Creator planned genetics very carefully. Originally, everything was perfect, so there were no mutations. After humans began to break the rules, defects began to pile up, slowly at first, and now exponentially. Now we all have many mutations (which are not helpful to us at all, as anyone can see from the multitude of children’s hospitals). So, 4500 years ago there were many fewer mutations in the human genome than there are today.
“The Kingdom of Heaven is not in buildings of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood and there I am, lift a stone and there you’ll find me!”
Those were the words of Jesus, classed as heresy by the Catholic Church so that people will keep on going to church and they can keep their power.
It’s not about God, it never was. Sure, there are Churches that live only for God, but the Catholic Church is all about the power. Hell, some Popes thought of themselves as gods. Pope Innocent for instance. He played judge over countless people. The Cathars, which was a Christian group, were murdered in cold blood because the pope was an ass. Like a little boy with a temper tantrum!
Now, please. This is not about faith or the power of God. This is about that strange formation in the rocks on that mountain in the photo’s. Who gives a damn if it was God, Amun Ra, Krishna, Buddha, Kali, Zues of Thor! The question is… Is that Noa’s Ark or not?
Lisa:
I’m sorry if I left you stranded… but you’re holding up nicely on your own… well done.
I took a break from this thread because I was feeling a bit like calling Dr. Kavorkian to end the misery brought on by the predictable responses from our compatriots. Ya know… nobody reads anything other than what they want to fid that confirms their beliefs. If they did, these thigs would be filled with questions, not axioms.
Somewhere in the bible (can’t remember exactly where) it says, “…the word of God is written on the hearts of men.” I alwasy thought that was the best quote; no book, no editors, no dogma, just what the creator had to say to me… the ultimate personal relationship with God.
While you and I might differ in our theistic/atheistic view of life, we agree completely that these things are to be held as personal foundations of one’s self. It is nothing short of arrogant and sophomoric to imagine that one has the right answer for another person. Further, just because an avalanche is big and awesome and has a history, does not mean that one should jump into it. Martyrdom is for sissies…
Finally, I feel that the various diatribes that have been entered into the public record herein show me no evidence that there is hope of peace on earth in my lifetime. Whether or not Noah saved the vertebrates for another day in the sun is wasted on “we – the living”. If Noah were here today, he’d say shit, why the heck did I waste all my time & effort saving these morons so they could ruin everything? The various camps are all dressed in their warpaint, ready to kill (literally or in print) anyone that does not believe in the same. While they deny that they do this, they do this outright, and rationalize their comments and behaviour as being in defense of God. Well, holy mother of freedom… since when does God need help from Cretons? (wait… that might be a compliment… maybe “croutons”)…
So I am going to sit by and watch as the world (and this thread) just comes unwound… and in the end, I will be able to say, “I told you so!”
You, Lisa, will be one of the few that understood it better than any religious zealot could ever grasp… and if ther is a hereafter, God will welcome you for having the guts to travel your own, dignified and noble road.
Now I’m going to pray that the internet shuts down for a day.. LOL!
Best,
Greg
P.S. I know that if I would start writing a book of theology and could convince my kids and all their decendents to keep writing, that after a couple hundred years or so, someone would take it and start another religion, call me a “prophet” and start passing the collection plate… such predictable creatures of habit we humans are… if only we could look at life through our own eyes and trust ourselves to be right… but no… we always need someone else’s approval and a clan to call our own.
Greg, you are probably right, except that getting your desceendants to follow through is a big IF. but IF they did, and even before that, you might start a RELIGION. And that is the difference between RELIGION and what some of us are talking about. RELIGIONS are manmade, imagination, maybe vague memories, dreams, listening to so-called angels, sometimes plaigerism, a little history, pride, and sometimes a desire for power. In contrast, the God of Noah and of Noah’s Ark and of the global Flood and of the Bible and of the Savior Jesus Christ (Who is God) is our Creator, Who disesires a personal friendship with us. NOT a religion. THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE LOVES EACH OF US AND CARES ABOUT EACH OF US AND GAVE US HIS OWN PERSONAL MESSAGE IN THE BIBLE. He made the “natural laws” by which the universe runs smoothly. Men make machines that last a few years. The Creator made machines that last indefinitely. The Creator gave Noah instructions for an Ark that could endure a year of flooding, storms, tsunamis, cyclones, volcanoes, mountain-building, super hurricanes, fierce winds, and more and yet could gently carry people and animals to safety. Humans could not have done that. The Bible is the only book that has lasted for 6000 years and been translated into most languages of the world in spite of human efforts to erradicate it. NOT RELIGION, but a personal relationship with the CREATOR of everything good and beautiful and lasting. In order for good to last forever, anything that opposes good cannot last forever. That was what the Flood of Noah’s day was all about and what the coming cleansing of the Earth by fire is all about.
lets talk problems. problem1) food. it was years and years b4 the water was gone, noah took baby animals and fed tham to the carnivores. near starvation but surviving. he harvested the remains and made more grass. tada! herbavore food. (watch the lion king). he had plenty of fertalizer. that leads me to #2…… the number two(waste) fertalizer. throw it overboard and keep some fertalizer. problem3) wieght. he was 1000 yrs old, plenty of time to build an ark of mass proportions and why waste time building an aquarium. lol. so ask any scientist. it is possible to have a miniature ecosystem(i made one in the third grade) noah had one one a major scale. all this COULD have made sense(just like the 10 plagues) you can go deeper with this but lets keep it short.
but this night not be the ark…its probably gone…..ill find it someday :) :)
Have a nice life all of you, its been fun! Seems like you all have it so called figured out, right? Peace be to you!!!!
Deb,
I understand where you’re coming from, it gets frustrating. Especially with quotes like “I took a break from this thread because I was feeling a bit like calling Dr. Kavorkian to end the misery brought on by the predictable responses from our compatriots” written by Greg.
Just crazy stuff, the sad thing is we actually know their responses more than they know ours. Greg and Lisa, please understand that God is love and that you have a chance to turn to Him. God is very patient with all of us, but if our time runs out on earth, we then have no time to get things right. P.S. Greg stop taking things too personally and realize nobody is questioning your salvation. Sounds to me like you talk with God, but then in the next breath you say Jesus is not the only way to heaven…RIGHT? You are either for Jesus or against Him and that comes from the bible, not any person. There is an afterlife and there are only 2 places, heaven and hell. There is only one name by which you can be saved, Jesus. One has the opportunity to accept Him or reject Hi. It’s not about religion, but personal relationship. Living for God and proclaiming the good news of salvation by grace, not of works lest any man should boast. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. This is directly from the Bible and it also says that on that final day, God will either say to us “well done good and faithful servant or depart from me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you” deep stuff I know. Jesus loves us and let’s stop looking at the specks in our brothers eyes and start looking at the planks in our own. The bible is God breathed and happens to be the number one seller of all time with many facts and prophecies fulfilled and the last ones yet to be! Noah’s ark actually happened and can be proven.
ONCE AGAIN….let me see If I can state something more clear to give an understanding to you all who back up your religion with your religious text.
Take the Fox News Channel… During the day there is about 2-3 hours total of news, the rest is opinion, speculation and so forth. But what is interesting is in their news sessions they are getting their information from what they talk about on their station that is not news. Their News (Your facts on reality) is coming from their own opinions, ideas and perceptions on what is going on (Your ideas for backing your religion to the outside world come from within your religion. In order to believe what you are saying as truth one must first believe the religion. If you are un able to draw facts and ideas from outside of yourself…)
Fox news (like Christianity, which is just one example) takes what they say when they are not reporting news (you take what you say about life in your text which is what is being questioned to back it up. I highly find it logical to use the thing in question as evidence to back up what is being questioned….) and they use it as their news!
If that is confusing just ask and I will try to break it down some more for you.
Nothing is wrong with religion, UNLESS you are so self absorbed that you can’t handle other people who don’t follow you. Stop being so insecure! Just because there are other ways of faith does not mean yours is wrong, neither does it mean that the others is wrong. Just get over yourselves and stop telling people their religious believe systems are wrong! That is so DEHUMANIZING!
Lisa, you talk about dehumanizing. If one creator created humans and we say so, that cannot be dehumanizing. When someone else decided not to want to be accountable to our creator and made up a story to say that humans evolved from animals which evolved from single cells which evolved from lightning hitting mud in a pond which evolved from a Big Bang, that is DEHUMANIZING!
hey God bless everyone :), im no here to argue i see that everyone is entitled to there own opinion, but check this out. Can anyone prove to me Scientifically or even Medically, how a Peron who has been in a wheel chair for 20 years, through PRAYER , automatically start to walk? Can anyone prove to me Scientifically or even Medically how people who have Aids , through pray, recive healing?. i know for a Fact that no one can prove that, because science and medicine can only go so far, then COmes God. I dont belive in the BIG BANG theroy, but i belive in the BIG BAM ! theroy,, GOD spoke and said let there be Light and BAMMMM !!! there waS LIGHT LOL.. but 4 real though like mike said, its not about a religon but a relationship with God. theres 3 diffrent relationship with GOd.. number 1) these are the people who know about God, only because they have heard through, tv, music, ad’s, friends, family’s ect.. about God and they them selves do not have a relationship with GOd.,….number 2) these are the people who know God, have accepted Jesus as there personal savior, but have one foot in church and one foot in the world. THey are going to church on fridays, then saturdays night, there at the CLUB. the bible says in james 4:4, for to be friends of the world means to be GOd’s enemy, u can not keep living the life u lived before u knew God, it has to change. ……and number 3) these are the same as everyonelse, but here is the things, they sin everyday, they mess up,, they fall down, but when they fall they Get up, when they sin, they confess it to JEsus so they can be cleanced by the Blood of JEsus. the diffrences is that they have LOST THERE LIFE.. like it says in matthew…. “IF you want to save ur life u must lose it for my sake, for those who lose there life, for my sake will save it, but those who keep there life will lose it” …. basically meaning that they lost there own life style and has, as the bible say’s >…FORGETten thmeselves, pick up there CRoss and is Follow Jesus… u see we have to DIE daily…. not litteraly, but our flesh,,,,, we habve to put to death, our way of talking… we have to put to death Envy,, we have to put to death our HAtes in our heart, we have to put to death Gossip,,, we have to put to Death our FLESH, and its desires… as it says in Galatians.. so if we FORGET our selves everyday, and pick up our cross everyday, which the Cross represents, pain and suffring..so if we pick up our cross, were are going to be persucted for what we preach, there is going to be times of trouble, times where it seems like there is no way out, but God will not give us more than we can handle.. if we are forgeting our selves, everyday, and pick up our crosses, and living everday, and serving God with all our hearts, mind, and soul, because thats all our strength, thats living for christ 100%..if were doing this then we are follwing Christ , and if we are following christ, then we have the number 3..relationship that i talk to u about.. and if u have the number 3 relationship with God, then are doing everything that the scripute is telling u, and u are giving ur 100, not 90% not 99% ,,a 100% then there should be no doubt in ur mind that ur not going to heaven.. but only if u live the number 3 relationship ,, thats the only way to make it to heaven, because the bible says in matthew 7.. not everyone who calls me LOrd, LOrd will enter the kingdom of heaven, only those who do what my father in heaven wants them to do.” ……..and i ask u how will we know what God ,, its called a personal relationship with GOd. .. no im not here to judge. because the bible says if i judge , God will Judge me, and i know im far from perfect, but i do have a number 3 relationship with GOd, ..dont get it twisted i never said im perfect, but i fight with everything that i am to serve God, i know that there’s moments whn i feel like im not, but i make sure that i serve him to the fullest. …because u are either serving GOd, or ur not!!! there is no MIddle,, there is no KINDA.. there is no LUke-warm… and i tell u, im not here to discourge anyone, on the contrary , im here to tell u brother or sister, that God has called u to be a Man or Women of GOd.. and as a Man or Women of God, u have Athority, and power, because if GOd is the KING of KING’s, nd were his sons and Daughters, that makes us PRINCE and PRINCESS, so as a PRINCE or PRINCESS.. u need to not only talk athority, but u must walk, and dress, and speak as Royalty,, Royality of the lord :)>…………GOd bless all I Declare GOd will strenghtn everyone’s walk, ..even mine :) i still have a looooooooooong Eternity to know all of God,, let us all Grow in faith:) ..blessings
The dehumanizing act is not having a new belief it is imposing yours onto others! So what if others are doing it. Does that give you the right to do it to those that are not?
Lisa,
I know I said I was outta here. But I just don’t understand why you feel like you have to be the christian buster around here. Since you don’t believe in God, Jesus or any religion, why did you come to this web site? You have never answered the question.You get so offended because you think we’re offending everyone. But seems like you’re the only one offended. Come on what do you have in commomn with anyone here, at all??? Whether or not you believe it or not, the world doesn’t revolve just around you either and your beliefs. Freeeeee world, we can say what we want. I just so happen to like hearing what they say. Christian or not! I feel as though people are important to here. I’m sick of you and Greg your buddy trying to tell everyone to shut up in a nice way cause you guys don’y like hearing we have to say!! I like everyones point of veiw!!!!!!!! COME ON QUIT TRYING TO CONTROL EVERYONE, REALLY !!!!!!
There is nothing wrong with talking about your religion. Just I think it is horrible to say that your is the only way. You are mistaken about my intensions because I am not preaching any way, I am trying to get everyone to show respect for eachother because there are a lot of people on here who don’t.
Stupid me… I forgot how to unsubscribe to this thread… So I’ve been getting emailed with everything everyone’s been saying…
I guess it’s my lot.
1) Yes I can scientificly explain miraculous cures through prayer.
2) No, Lisa is not the only person offended by the lopsided, unsubstantiated, blind-faith, and condescending viewpoints expressed herein.
3) The reason everyone showed up here in the first place, was the intrinsic, historical interest in the phenomenom and discussion of Noah’s Ark and whether the citing in the photograph might have historical value. (Nobody said something like that might not have happened, just questions as to its origin.)
4) Yes, “dehumanizing” is an applicable term.
5) Aside from the vulgar jerks that just threw explatives at us all, the input received here from thoughtful, caring, skeptical persons has been a respectful, reflective and open-minded… live and let live kind-of speak. Contrast this with the scoldings and “lessons of correct thinking” from the self-righteous for the best clue as to just who is on the defense. Must be some residual insecurity there. (Thou protestest too much) I guess that is actually a good sign for the possibility of change, someday.
6) There is no hell in the Torah. The bible incorporates the Torah. Emperor Constantine commissioned the Council of Nicea to write the bible. He, as Emperor, had final editor’s pen. Subsequent to the council, he defined himself as the Holy Roman Emperor and heir to Peter. As much as anyone wants to keep the faith, everything else was just politics after that… You can throw a tantrum all you want, but the smoking gun is there for even the most faithful historian… only people that want to be controlled and have a skape-goat in Jesus continue believing in a bastardized doctrine that was manipulated by men for their own purposes. Sorry, it is what it is.
7) What is entirely missed by Cristianity is the incredible life story of Jesus! Here is a man, who against all odds and dealing with a very primitave audience, tried to teach an ignorant and myopic cluster of humanity that there was a better way to live one’s life, with a higher purpose, and even God centered. Why else did the story of explusing the traders from the temple get included? Why else are phrases like “give to Caeser what is Caesar’s” get included?) Jesus never ordained a church. He ordained an idea… a great idea! He was killed for that idea because it challenged the economy of the day. It was men who later ordained a church!!! Not leaders, but followers… sheep among men wanting a higher order for themselves. Not the first time and not the last in history when a class of people jumped onto something and perverted it into another government.
8) 80% of the bible is the Torah. If the entire thing is the word of God, why do you eat pigs and shelfish? Christians are the first order of selective obedience to the word of God. Hypocrites from the start.
9) If there is a heaven, Lisa will be the only person in this discussion group to go there. (I do not know Lisa from Eve)
10) Jesus is coming… and boy is he pissed at you!
Greg
Jesus did not eat pigs and shelfish. He was a strict, kosher jew… Why should you be allowed to live as though his example was meaningless?
Greg now who’s preaching? You don’t mind having everyone listen to your stories and you sure already judged Lisa as the only one here going to heaven. Man your’e the blind leading the blind. As much as you say you know Jesus, I’ve never known someone more mixed up about who Jesus really was.
If you really took the time to ask me and share a dialog… you’d be amaazed what i know… and how much I admit is open to interpretation…
The comment about Lisa being the only person going to heaven was a “worm on a hook”… you bit…
further, it is MORE than interesting that you focued on that one point about Lisa than the other 9 ones that draw the very essecnce of your belief system into question… You get an “A” for spelling and an “F” for comprehension…
(yes, God invented brains… and we disgrace Him by not USING USING USING them…)
P.S. I can’t wait until my 6 kids meet yours…
P.P.S. Until you walk throught the valley of the shadow of death yourself, you will never understand… his countenance and his purpose, nor your own.
In all fairness Mike, my faith in God is written in blood. The cleansing purge that I have had to live through before and with my children has been nothing short of what Job or Sisyphus had to endure. My faith is buttressed by real, horrible events, and I have not moved from that place for 50 years in spite of the temptation to quit. Yet, even with my own Christian upbringing, my preference is for eery person to find their own path to God, for without total ownership of the process, one cannot claim their medal. To borrow another phrase, one cannot live another’s Karma… I hope this helps you understand where I’m coming from and renders you less judgemental…
– Greg
This whole thing is getting out of hand! Greg, no offence sweetie, but nobody really gives a damn about you and your faith. Good for you if you are a Christian!
As for the others… No doubt that your beliefs hold no place for supernatural beings, too bad, this world is filled to the brim with great and wonderful things you can and never will be able to even begin to understand. Narrowminded views will prevent you from ever truely experiencing the “GODLY” and wonderful things out there. I pity you…
NOAH’S ARK PEOPLE!!! FACT OR FICTION?!!!
Hello, I’m a former Atheist that heard this whole business on the blog. I think it’s only right you know, that I questioned whether God actually existed myself, so many years ago. There was a time, in which I was firmly an Atheist due to the way I was taught at public school. As a child I started off as a believer, I received Jesus after a neighborhood friend invited me to Sunday school with their family, I attended for a long time then drifted away. As an adult I started questioning everything, such as whether God was real or not. I married a man that also considered himself an Atheist. We had many conversations concerning this subject, I really just wanted to know the truth so I could teach my children the right way to go. I would hear stories about angels, people having supernatural experiences, miracles, and again questioned a lot of things. I then found myself on my knees asking God to prove himself to me. I actually told God, I really needed to see something tangible, in order to believe in him. After several nights of praying and nothing happening, I figured I had my answer (that God was not really there). Several weeks later, a friend of mine who I went to school with, stopped by my house to visit with me. She wanted my opinion as to what she should do concerning a very important decision she needed to make, concerning an operation to remove a number of brain tumors, since she was having epileptic fits and was about to have her drivers license pulled, but the most important issue was she had three small children. She’s had this problem for a number of years and now the doctors want to cut them out! You have to understand this was about 35 years ago and they didn’t have the technology we do now. It was a more dangerous surgery back then. She really didn’t know what to do and I didn’t know either. In the middle of our conversation, I received a phone call from my mother, she told me she was going to a meeting that she was invited to by my two aunts, who were very into God. It was a healing and prayer meeting . I thought these types of meetings were a joke. She wanted to know if I wanted to go. I explained to my mother that I was not interested in going and I was very surprised she was, especially since she had never ever gone to church. I kept trying to discouraged her from going, I even told her the people were probably just after her money, but she was curious and still planned on going. After I hung up from the conversation with my mother, my friend inquired as to what the phone call was about, I figured she overheard most of the conversation, so I was not to surprised she inquired. I explained to my friend, that my mother was planning on going to this healing meeting. I remarked as to how ridiculous I thought my mother’s idea was, to go to this meeting. My friend proceeded to ask me if I’d ever questioned whether God was real or not, she then asked, if I ever wondered if God could heal people, like things we had both seen on TV, at one time or the other. I told her that I didn’t believe it could be true, but I had two aunts, and a grandmother, that very much believed it was true. My friend became very curious and told me she would like to go to this meeting, she then convinced me to take her, I couldn’t talk her out of this idea, for obvious reasons! I tried calling my mother back, but she had already left for the meeting, she told me just enough about where it was going to take place, that I figured I could find it, she mentioned it was going to be in a building somewhere at the fairgrounds, so we had our husbands watch our children and then proceeded to find this place, and we found it. When we walked into the building, we soon realized there was about 5000 people that showed up for this meeting and forget about finding my mother in a crowd of this size, so we decided to sit in the very last row. After listening to the evangelists presentation, I found I was getting very bored and didn’t believe a thing he had to say, I actually felt very sorry for the people that were hanging on to his every word , I criticized everything he had to say, all I could think about was getting out of there. I’d been there for about an hour, I was just getting ready to leave when the evangelist asked if there were any skeptics or unbelievers in the room, I immediately felt that was me. My friend elbowed me in the side and wanted to go up front, I replied no way. We argued and I finally gave in. We were the very last people to get up, there were several other people that had already gone up front. As we were walking up front, we were stopped by a man on the side that was keeping the evangelist from getting tangled up by the microphone chord. Back then the microphones were not cordless. The guy wanted to know where we thought we were going, I replied we were heading up front, he told me to sit down, since they already had enough people upfront. I immediately thought in my mind that these people up front must be paid actors and they really didn’t need us. The evangelist noticed we were talking to the guy on the side, he refocused his whole attention towards us and he started walking towards us, he came up to me and asked me what the problem was, I told him he asked for unbelievers and skeptics, that’s me, and I told him I didn’t believe in what he was doing and I he was a big phony. The entire crowd sighed in disbelief. The evangelist laughed at me and then told me I was the main one he was looking for. God had already showed him me, and this was my night. He asked me to come up front and wait until he was finished with the other people. One of the people in the line, a guy who had a huge growth, I guess it was a tumor on the side of his face, about the size of a quarter, he prayed for him and within five minutes after being prayed for, the growth crawled off onto a handkerchief, like a bug or something. All he said to the man after barely tapping him on the head was “in the name if Jesus”. We could not understand how this growth just crawled off onto a handkerchief and left a hole in the side of his face. The crowd was told that the rest of his face would soon heal and that God had given him a miracle. My close friend was shaken up, her knees started knocking and she became afraid and wanted to go sit down, but I would not let her go, since she was the one who made me go to the meeting and also, go up front. Now it was our turn and I wanted to know what was going to happen. The evangelist took me first and told me know he was going to show me a few things I didn‘t know. He told me God showed him, me down on my knees asking God to reveal himself to me. He told me that tonight was my night and that I would never disbelieve God is real after tonight . He then walked over to the middle of the room and pointed at this lady that just so happened to be my mother and asked her to stand up, I now knew where my mother was sitting. He asked her to come up front, but because she was bashful she was very reluctant, after a little encouragement, she finally got out of her seat and went up front. He then told me there were some shocking things about my mother that I didn’t know, but God knows. He told my mother that she had a cancerous growth on the inside of her nose that is not visible on the outside. Confirmed by more than one doctor. He than asked her if this was true? She replied yes, it is, and since I knew nothing about this , I was very surprised. I had a hard time believing she would hide something like that from me. So I wondered if the guy had hypnotized her to think that. I had a lot of things going through my head at that point, such as how did he know that she was my mother, how did he know, I was on my knees asking God to prove himself to me. I wondered if he had ESP. I just couldn’t bring myself to believe that this was actually God. He said my mother was going to receive a miraculous miracle from God to prove to me, that God is real. As he proceeded to pray for her, I stopped him. I thought I would fix him up real good, I told him that if he was going to pray for her she had a number of other problems, such as diabetes, high blood pressure and a number of other things, I asked him what about all the other issues? Is God going to heal all those things too? He than said that when he prays for her that God would heal her from the top of her head to the bottom of her feet. I replied, then go for it! He then barely touched her on the top of her forehead and then I heard a big thump, as she hit the floor, and since I’d never seen anything like this before, it really concerned me. I was told that she was on Gods operating table and that she’s fine. Then comes my friend’s turn, she was told she had three brain tumors and she was confused, scared, and feared dying. But, also to prove to me, God was also going to give her a miraculous healing as well. I was blown away that he knew about that tumors, especially since her and I just had this conversation before we came to the meeting…He then prayed for her, she didn’t fall down, but she knew she was touched by God. My mind was really spinning by this point, I didn’t know what to believe. I just knew that once they returned to their doctors if they discovered that they were truly healed, I knew in my heart that there would be no other explanation, other than they had been healed by God. But still doubting, I left the building looking for a telephone booth. I proceeded to call my father at his home. He did not know where my mother had gone, I asked him if he knew anything about mom’s cancer, she had in her nose. He asked me how I found out, since my mother had made him promise that he would not tell me or my brother about it. I told my dad about what had happened, he was amazed. After the conversation ended, I walked back into the building and went into the ladies room, I was approached by 3 ladies that asked me about what they had just seen. They asked me if that was really my mother and if that was my friend, and were we paid actors. I chuckled and found that question amusing, since that was what I always had believed myself.
In conclusion, my friend returned to her doctors who both tested her, retested and retested her again and they could not find any trace of the brain tumors. She was totally and miraculously healed. My mother not only was healed of diabetes, high blood pressure but the cancer in her nose was miraculously gone as well. I found out that the reason she had not told me about it, the doctor wanted to remove her nose, which would have left a hole in the her nose. She would have had to wear a plastic nose the rest of her life, she decided she would rather die than to go around like that, so she was going to die with it! She did not want my brother and me to know about it. That was 35 years ago, she is still alive and totally cancer free. I’ve now seen so many miracles, once I became open to the power of God. Please remember, not all healings are miraculous but in the case of my mother and friend, it was truly miraculous! I couldn’t deny God if I wanted to. If you want answers just ask God, and I’m sure he’ll answer you. I now pray that God removes the spiritual blindness, that I see on all the non believers on this blog.
Well that huge boat that was found in Turkey after an earthquake is the exact same dimensions as described in the Bible and it was found in the same location where the Bible says the ark came to rest. They also found the giant stones used to anchor the ark, with 8 crosses on them, there were 8 people on the ark. Just all seems a bit too much of a coincidence doesn’t it?????
for the unbeliever:
Yeah, unfortunately there is a hurt generation out there who based their belief of GOD on man that claims to “know” Him. Like Georgia’s testimony, I too step out on faith to pray for those in need for miracle. In the beginning I didn’t “see” the results right away. Then I realized God had to change my unbelief. Now 85-90% of the people I pray for I have no other choice than to (expect) the miraculous. I said all of that to say this. If you are not a believer in Christ Jesus and you do not believe the Bible is the whole unlacking word of God, then you are waisting your time insulting those who do choose to believe on a site designed for archeological discovery. Further more before you decide to hate something based on negetive experience or because your best friend said you should. Try first with a open heart to challenge yourself to read the Bible as if it where true and challenge yourself to walk like Jesus for a day. Not synically either. Pray and ask the real God to reveal himself to you. If He is the same God yesterday, today and tomorrow then he is still Supernatural. If a tribal man who never heard of Christianity in a tribe deep in Africa prayed the same question and was visited by Jesus in His dream and that is how he converted from Muslim beliefs then anyone truely seeking the truth can too. God said 368 times in the Bible “Do not fear.” So what to you have to loose and fear in finding Him?
Noah’s ark is a true thing.In the bible it tells noah the EXACT way to build the ark, and how many of each animal to put on it.God kept the animals under control by his power.Noah’s ark floated around for we dont know how many days and apparantly the ark had crashed here.
Darlene is completly correct everybody should turn to god and his power.
So i’ve been doing some research on Christian Mythology and yes in other religions there is a story of a great flood. This story or Myth can be traced back to the first story ever written: Gilgamesh. Quite interesting I think!
good Lisa im glad to hear that.
I believe that Lisa is completly ok.I mean she’s showing what she thinks.Although she is also kindda being bossy.If she could be a little more nice that would be a perfect person for this web site!I mean she is just explaining some christian things.If you dont like what shes saying, why listen to her.Just ignore her if you dont like what she is saying.
How am I not being nice? And how am I being bossy? My previous posts were responses to people who were telling other peoplat to believe so yes I was upset. But my last post is an observation that I found after doing research.
Let me ask you this Cosmo: What is the difference from me saying what I have said and other people saying things like, “God is the only way” or “You need to find god and follow him” or “there is no other path than Gods path”. People on this site who are saying things like that are being extreamly bossy AND discriminatory. Who are they to say what others believe is weong? And who are you to start criticizing me for posting something so simple as ” I found research showing that the flood myth in the Bible was derived from the first story every written Gilgamesh” ?
Just because it might make you upset that other people realize that the stories within Christianity are also Mythological does not mean you can go around being a jerk.
Thank you,
Lisa
wow Lisa.Im just trying to satisfie everyone.If you havnt nowdised i also wrote something to help you witch I was just about to do because I kind of like to listen to you.If you dont want to say nice things fine.I just said that you were just a smig bossy in one paragraph but other than that I was TRYING to be nice.And ypur kinda making a big deal about one small word I said.S what is your choise that you want me to say?Mean?Or nice words?What ever satisfies you.I just want some peace on this web site.So mean or nice?
In kind words,
cosmo
thats all Lisa thanks I dont want to get into a fight.
well Cosmo,
From my perspective what you said was not nice at all. I do not feel that you have any athourity to comment on what other people have said in a judging way; telling them that what they said is good or bad or bossy etc. That to me sounds a bit bossy and egotistical. If you want to add to the website about your opinions on Noahs ark instead of telling people that there opinions are good, or bad etc. then fine otherwise what you are doing (I think) has no place on this site.
Like I said before, Who are you to judge what others are posting as Good or Wrong? Your no one to to that. Neither is anyone else. So if you want this to be a clean site then act like it. But if you are going to critcize and judge people in all of your posts then you shouldn’t be here (i think).
~Lisa
This is a good read about Noah’s Ark. I don’t know if the link will work because it is from JOSTOR if not here is the title if anyone is interested:
Noah’s Flood Reconsidered
Author(s): M. E. L. Mallowan
Source: Iraq, Vol. 26, No. 2 (Autumn, 1964), pp. 62-82
Published by: British Institute for the Study of Iraq
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/4199766
Click to access 4199766.pdf
look first of all the christians that put up comments to support the arguement towards god i respect yall but come on you need to get you facts right it was 120 years and 4 months not a year okay…now to begin my arguement im gonna be mean im just gonna say that it was gods power the provided all of that to happen and you have to beleive in him to have eternal life
Lisa, you get an A+ for doing some research. The story of Gilgamesh certainly is interesting and is one of hundreds of stories worldwide that confirms that people from all over the globe had a memory of the Flood of Noah’s day, as the only totally true story documents in Genesis. Unfortunately, somebody lied when they said that Gilgamesh came first. Maybe it was the oldest story we have found that was written after the Flood, besides the Bible’s record. But the Bible definitely came first. Stories like Gilgamesh may have been influenced by Noah’s account. Besides the actual ship’s log (in Genesis), Noah and his three sons and the four wives make eight people who lived through the experience and later told the story to children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. As each new family spread out across the globe, they carried the memory of the story they way they read or heard it, and so, it began to change over many years. But all those stories, including Gilgamesh, are about the one true event in Noah’s time. It is too bad that people choose to call that true document “mythology”. Actual mythology is usually based on some truth. In the case of the many flood “myths”, they all go back to the truth of the Genesis account. You did good, Lisa. I’m sorry that you were steered in a somewhat wrong direction.
interesting, yes i did also find proof that the first part of the bible written by moses was written in the 1450’s BC after the Exodus, and the earliest tab (which I have found in several published sources) of the writings of Gilgamesh were created in before are around 2000B.C. …. if you read the article it should mention that as well as how until the dam was built in that area in the late 1950’s that when rainstorms came in the spring the entire area would be under hundreds of feet of water.
Here is another source I was reading about if you are interested.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/noah_com.htm
P.S. thanks for being nice :)
Thank you, Lisa. i will take a look at this site.
Lisa,
I first said in my last post that I did not want to get into a fight.Anyway you think that I am judging people?No,I do not do that.I dont see anything wrong. I told you that I just wanted to saticefie EVERYONE.Once again I DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT.You may have noticed something wrong in what i am saying but I surely dont.I am a young christian man,And I do not try to control people.
IN REAL KIND WORDS,
cosmo
p.s. Cosmo is not my real name, please call me cody thanks.
p.s.s.I am sorry for what I said,I just dont notice anything!.
Cody,
I was never fighting with you. If you feel we are fighting because we are in dissagreement I feel bad for you. But the fighting is completly on your side of the equation. I was (and still am) trying to have a conversation with you as to why you felt the need to say I was being bossy. And I thought that since you (Started a fighting type of atmosphere by attacking me) that instead of fighting back I would show to you how your comment on me was Completley hipocritical, when you say things such as :
Darlene is completly correct everybody should turn to god and his power.
cosmo said this on March 9, 2010 at 10:09 pm
And that your posts such as this:
I believe that Lisa is completly ok.I mean she’s showing what she thinks.Although she is also kindda being bossy.If she could be a little more nice that would be a perfect person for this web site!I mean she is just explaining some christian things.If you dont like what shes saying, why listen to her.Just ignore her if you dont like what she is saying.
cosmo said this on March 10, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Are a personal attack that have nothing to do with this website, especially since in the post of mine you were refering to:
So i’ve been doing some research on Christian Mythology and yes in other religions there is a story of a great flood. This story or Myth can be traced back to the first story ever written: Gilgamesh. Quite interesting I think!
Lisa said this on March 9, 2010 at 11:28 pm
I Never told any one what to do, unlike what you have done in your posts.
Thank You,
(And no I am not fighting with you so please if you are upset calm down)
~Lisa
Lisa.I never ment to call you bossy.If you look at the first comment made on this web page its a real slam on my religion.I guess I just got mad at it.Oh and im glad your researching.Now im starting to think that I had over reacted.thanks.
Cenceirly,
cosmo/cody
p.s.=)
well, I didn’t read all the comments because that woud have take too long, but someone made a comment about how did they feed all of the animals? I don’t know if anyone has researched fasting lately, but it actually makes you healthier and is highly possible. I’m not saying that they were all fasting for 40 days, but it is highly possible that Noah fed the animals enough to keep them alive. Animals, even more so than humans, are able to handle long periods of time without food. It’s amazing how one’s body reacts and compensates when starving.
(i’m not directing this at any one person) But please, don’t give me the “let’s just be realistic” thing. I was the same way. I need facts and something real to base my logic on. That is exactly why I believe in God and accepted Jesus as my savior, because God makes so much sense. Scientist can come up with as many theories as they like, all they are going to do is come up with good theories on how God did what he did. It’s like hearing a knock on the door. You know it happened because you hear the effects of it, but someone had to of have done it. In other words, things such as Big Bang Theory- great theory- but what was that matter doing there in the first place and why did it explode? Life is NOT just a coincidence. That is just too simple for something as complex as life.
It also defies logic to think that an ark coincidentally landed up there. It’s just so obvious. People always get defensive about the Word no matter how many times it’s proven true. How can it be so hard for people to accept something that’s so complete, perfect, and reasonable?
It is not important which documented religion came first. Pharoah believed he was a god when Moses was instructed by God to lead the people out of Egypt. There were several other religions and many witchcraft practicices the Bible speaks of B.C.
But here is the real question who out there has a need they want me to pray for? I believe God that is the God of Isreal, Lord of Lords wants to pour out His spirit upon this internet and radically change some people’s lives. I will await any requests.
God Bless!
Actually the pharoah who was reigning at the time of moses in egypt was Ahkenten he tried to change the Egyptian belief into that of one God, Aton (or the Sun god, sundisk). After the people of egypt either exiled him or he died his sun king tut took over and restored the original ideologies of religion in egypt. Moses is believed to be a priest (follower) of the Pharaoh Ahkenaten. Also the Pharoahs did not believe themselves to be actual “Gods” but the one who could comunicate with the gods and therefore he was looked upon in a godly mannor, such as specific animals (it was not animal worship) because the egyptians believed the Gods favored specific animals and so they would look upon those anmals with high status to help please the gods (Not the same as animism).
what is science.it works on what from where?. to me science is human endevors to explain things they do not understand.things caused by God. God causes nothing to something. 1000 years to one day and 1 day to a 1000 yaers. therefore the animals survival was no big deal…
science is human ways trying to explain what God created.where man does not understand he thinks its not possible.without realising that its only beyond his limited knowledge.God is able to cause nothing to something.a thousad years to one day and one day to athousad years.
The story I know about Noah’s ark is :
There was an water layer around Earth which protected the planet from Sun’s rays and people could live to 600 years. Noah lived around 600-700 years and the Ark was build for about 100 years and it’s 150 meters long and 14 meters tall.This water layer corrupted and fell on Earth – this is where the great deluge comes from.
Darlene, would you pray for me? God already knows my needs and already has been gracious in many way. Thank you for the invitation. I pray that God will bless Lisa. I mean that out of the trueness of my heart I really do love people.
P.S. If you guys want to see something really cool,look up the rainbow egg nebula. When I looked at the picture I believe I can see jesus.
Darlene,
I understand and appreciate the jester, but what you said in your last post involving me makes me feel uncomfortable.
hey Lisa I been wondering what is your accual religion?Hey check out some other pictures of noahs ark.Once I saw a picture that the bible described it looked like when it wasnt “In Ruins” so called.It looked like a house on a boat!
Lisa please be specific I apologize for any offense I simply asked for prayer request from anyone no one person specific. Thank you and god Bless!
Debbie we are praying for you thank you God Bless!
Darlene: I was refering to when you said you would pray for God to Bless me.
Cody: I do not wish to reveal that as I feel it is just another way for a person to label who I am and judge me for it.
Please forgive me Lisa but I am not understanding yet why asking God to Bless you is a bad thing?
I didn’t say it was bad I said it made me feel uncomfortable.
In reference to which Pharoah was the Pharoah at the time of Moses: There are many controvercies about this subject yet still no evidence of any. 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;. It takes less effort to pray and ask the truth to be revealed when seeking it, than spending endless amounts of time researching what everyone else thinks or believes is true. It all comes back to “faith” in something whether it is science or intelligent design. In the end we all will have to make the choice of what we chose to serve. God Bless.
I’m sorry it made you feel uncomfortable specifically. I meant it for everyone. You do not have to feel compelled to respond a request. Please do not be offended but I would fail miserably as a Christian if I didn’t pray for everyone in the world.
Darlene,
Thank you so much I appreciate your prayers. God bless you all.
Darlene,
I read your post on how you have seen the miraculous. I’ve been asing God to show me a lot of miraculous things lately. As Christians I feel as though we should all see these things as Jesus said. Would you pray that God would start opening more supernatural things in my my home, for me, my husband and my 3 kids? pray that God blesses you and yours also. Thank you.
Hey did anyone see Debbies post about the rainbow egg nebula? Wow if you look close enough you can see a man standing in the midst of it. This is a NASA photo that was untouched by man and even has the initials J and C above the man looking figure. You have to zoom in to see that. Like the bible says, if you draw near to God, He will draw near to you. copy and paste this into our browser
If we can believe that a 300 long foot ship can be docked on top of a mountain, than would it be too difficult to believe that the stars and nebulas in space could look like Jesus also? http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/detail/NVA2~8~8~13528~114069:Rainbow-Image-of-a-Dusty-Star
Also check this out, a blue cross in space with a man (jesus) on the cross, look carefully and you will see his outline of himself on that cross (head, legs, feet etc)..amazing…here is that link
Oh I am soooo sorry Darlene, it was not your comment. Oopss. The comment that made me feel uncomfortable was said by Debbie, when she said she would “ask that God bless Lisa.”
I am sorry I got the names mixed up, you guys both have names that start with D’s and I think she mentioned you in that post as well.
Debbie,
Thank you for your prayers my husband and I just received your messages and we are praying in agreement with your requests.
God Bless you all and thank you.
Lisa,
It’s all good… I do things like that all the time. God Bless you and thank you for your response.
Why is everyone arguing about religion? Some believe in aliens and some believe in God…all i know is im going to heaven, and i believe that noah DID do the work of god. It may not be able to be explained right now, but im gunna ask him when i get there. Heres a saying i was left with…dont you think it would be better to except him and find out you were right, then not to, and find out you were wrong? Oh, and of course hes like an alien to us…hes perfect in everywhere…and none of us are.
I told my wife that I don’t care if there is an afterlife. I’ve been working so hard and going without sleep all my life that I want a break. If there is an afterlife, please respect the Do Not Disturb sign on my casket. It will advise you to knock in 10 Billion years. If I miss something, so what. That is what I want for an afterlife. Sleep.
i dont undrestand why when people want to show they are clever they deny. the are of living is acceptance and of course with good knowledge but do u really think what we have is knowledge? we dont even know what causes the illness…i think if u guys read the holographic universe by michele talbot u ll get ur answers.
Wasn’t it only 40 days that they had to stay on the ark?
People, it is simple as light of day. God is the almighty creator and father of all things. Did you ever think that maybe he purposely made it to where science could explain certain Christian phenomenon? It is written that God is a jealous God. Take into account that while science may explain many things, it could be a test of our faith in Him to believe science or His word. “It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man.” Psalm 118:8. It’s clear as day. Think about it.
the 1st comment is such as stupid.who do u think give u life?ur parents?of course God created!NOTHING IS IMPOSIBLE with GOD u stupid!!!
Which is why the argument is faulty…
To be honest, whoever wrote the first comment obviously had a 3rd grade education, to say the ark is “Bullshit”!! well it is scientifically proven that there was a great flood years ago.
Another thing, why does everything have to be down to science? if you ask me, science is not right everytime.
The ark in the Bible was about 1.4 million cubic feet (the size of a football stadium maybe). You couldn’t fit all the species on Earth in there even if you put them in a blender. And can you imagine the nasty inbreeding afterwards? Would you want to live forever with a genocidal god like that anyways? If there were only these 8 humans to repopulate the Earth how did there get to be all the cultures, languages, and empires that the Jews were fighting with just a few hundred years later? Is there any end to the holes in the Bible?
One of my favs: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm
The post is a good one. Anyone’s audience is a group of individuals. Nothing can change it.
Nice article written here. I got to know a few more things about the topic
It never said each species was on the ark it only said two of each kind like you wouldnt need to put a wolf and a coyote on the ark only one or the other because those are the same kind of animal and can still breed with each other same with the other species like little cats and biga cats and horses or zebras look it up ever heard of the zorse?
Did you know we share 50% of the same genes in our DNA with a Banana and even more with animals? Also it is scientifically proven that we came from worms at the bottom of the ocean!
No its NOT the scientists just want you to think its proven when in reality they are all a bunch of liers the are still looking for a missing link to prove that evolution is real which they will never find becoause their logic makes no sense at all and if you can prove to me in some other way than a lame scientists word then please tell me I’m really interested.
They decoded our DNA a few years ago, have found countless resembelences throughout the species of the planet. You should watch a documentary called “what Darwin never knew”. Also I do not see how you can give me so much crap for stating this when there is more evidence for evolution than there is for there being a “god” (or should I just say the Cristian god) and you guys think it is only okay for you to come on and say things that go with your belief. I wont say right out that you are wrong, unlike some of you people who come out and say things like “there is no other way and people should follow only god” I mean how self centered can a person get. Also the evidence bein used comes from your own text! That is like me saying back before scientific testing that Darwin was right because he says so. I sit here and listen to people all of the time say ‘god’ is real because he says so….ummmmmm okay….. But hey I have no problem with people believing but when you come on here and tell me that my opinion or my belief is wrong with NO way of backing up your opinions I get a little upset. I never said you were wrong. And if evolution is true does that ‘disprov’ god? Be happy with what you believe that way you can be happy about it and yourself even when there are others who disagree with you.
How is saying that you should follow the only god self-centered? if anything is selfcentered it is saying that we should be able to choose whatever we believe and not have to answer to anyone about our beliefs. And by decoding our DNA they may be able to find similarities but how can they trace us back to some sort of worm and if evolution is real then why isnt it happening today? whenever i ask an evolutionist I get some lame excuse or a complete change of subject. And how can i truly just be happy with myself when i know there are people who completely disagree with me if you knew anything about this god or religion you would see why Christians try to convert people, and its not just to prove that they are right. Anyway I challenge you to read the Bible — take it as a chance to enlighten yourself and then you can tell me about there being no proof or evidence to back it up.
When ever I ask a Christian to explain themselves they say because that is what the bible says. How is that any different? And by saying that people have the right to choose what they believe is in no way saying they do not have to answer to anyone about it. I think it is important to have the respect for others and not try and control there ideologies? It is happening today, every single mutation in a human being is part of evolution. Think of people with genetic diseases those diseases are caused by a mutation (or a change in their dna structure). The same mutation is why creatures look different the mutation happens and if the animal survives long enough to mate it gets passed on etc. The reason we do not see it in mass effect is because our population is so large that to see a real effect you would have to look over a coourse of about 800 years. Also there are specific situations where there has been a group of people who were isolated and studied. They showed to have had genetic differences in them that are not consistant to other people. For instance more tolorence to specific diseases, etc.
Oh and I have read some of the bible, and I have read about other religions as well, does not mean I believe them.
What is the difference from a Christian saying that their faith is true and a muslim saying their faith is true? Nothing! (except the Christian might behead you or exile you, …) (Sorry bad joke, history shows it to be true though..)
I am not on here telling people what to believe I am just adding to facts. As I feel should be done, because by saying you are right implies that everyone else is wrong. Go live in Asia where chrstianity is not so well spread and see what reactions you get there. Or maybe they are nicer about there faith and will not impose it on you.
I am not afraid of some myth that tells I will go to hell. Hell didn’t even come into play in the Christian faith until long after they had followers and there was fear they would lose them. The chist on the cross was not the early symbol used eaither because of how depressing it can seem. That came into play a lot later as well.
Anywho I dun care what you believe as long as you are happy and not discriminitory against others because they believe something different.
Have a good one
(P.S. I know my spelling is really bad).
I am not in any way discriminotory! And for your information there is lots of evidence backing up the bible, and hell was there the whole time but they only pushed it later for that reason and now they do the oppisite and keep hell in the background to make everybody feel good about themselves. And i am not saying i dont respect your belief in evolution nor am i trying to push christianity on you but i just never really understood how someone could actually believe in something that makes so little sense(no offense) and arent people supposed to evolve to help them be better adapted for the environment in which case cancer shouldnt be considered an evolution.
Good day to you too.
Ahhh but to me and many others Christianity makes little sense…something to think about.
Hi This is fantastic….
I have thought about it many times
Its 100% true.I heard that lots of time.Who ever think that’s not true I would say Something somewhere sometime happen out of our knowledge.If you read my article just tell me how much you can think about GOD.
here is the bottom line RELIGION IS A BUNCH OF CRAP!!!!!!!!!
god jesus and satan are the origional three stooges
LLOL at that last pic.
Wow, how dare you childish people come blast our faith like that! Lisa, if you want the worm to be your God than fine. Back off all of us. Nobody said you have to be a christian. YOU quit attacking US!!!! You seem to do nothing but fight about all the people that want to express their faith. WOW!!! Is that why you come to this site is to express your anger for Christians. I’m sorry, but I’m sure we’d all like to believe in God than your worm therory. I’m surprised if that was true that everyone would of heard that by know. BTW, Darwin died saying what he believed to be true was wrong and that he did believe in God. So quit attacking everyone! Ya I said attacking everyone. And ya there is way more evidence of God, Jesus and HELL than all of the stuff you come up with. The reason you don’t see it is cause your always looking for any little thing that kinda even sounds like what you want, to be true… Why do you stay on the site and argue with everyone? I still haven’t seen anyone force their views on you. But yet defend from you. What’s that all about?
hey frank you better watch what you say about God. The bible says God is not mocked and you need to ask God to forgive you or you might not like how things play out. God is a God of love and Jesus is His only begotten son, how dare say you that. P.S. Lisa how come you don’t write back or comment about people saying these harsh things about Christianity? Could you be showing your true colors by not standing up for Christians? You say in one breath, that we all have our opinions and system of belief, but yet when people say rude things like that, how come you don’t speak up?
Maybe because I haven’t had time to get back to the site or a while….? And yes I do feel that what frank said is completely rude and offensive and that if that is all he is going to say then there is no reason for him to post here. Because is is an obvious attack not an underlying one.
And as for what you said to me Debbie…Umm What are you talking about? I mean really by saying I just learned something where people believe that we are genetically related to all creators is in no way saying you are wrong, it is saying that is something I found to be interesting because really that is what I said. Also, if I am an evolutionist (IF) wouldn’t that mean that I do not believe in ANY God, and if so why do you say to me that my God is a worm? I feel you are offended because the reason the bible is sooo easily offended is because (And this is just my view) it says that nothing else is right and therefore by questioning it you must be wrong. Now I think that is unfair! I mean it is no different then giving that power to our government you know. Because if they had that kind of power then if we questioned them we would be sent to prison or executed (instead of questioning God and getting sent to hell).
Just because Darwin Changed his mind while he was dieing does not mean his theory was incorrect. Also, I am not looking for someone to believe in, I do not need it. I feel that I have one life to live and when I die that is it. So instead of using religion to give my life meaning, I give meaning to my life based on what I find interesting and what I want to do.
Anyways, like I said with a system where questioning leads to execution, hell, prison etc. there is no reason to argue because it is like being oppressed from free thinking. That is how I really feel. But have neglected to mention previously.
Oh and Frank, really if you don’t have anything intelligent to add to the conversation go away.
Lisa,
I’ve never questioned if the bible is true or not. I’m not searching for other answers as you are. I get offended because my relationship with God is very personal to me. I’m sick of people talking about God like He is somekind of alien. Just because you guys don’t know Him as real being. For example, I don’t know who your mom is, but I don’t say she is not real. The bible has all the answers to creations questions. There are many things in the bible that explain why hell was set up. Gods will it that nobody should perish. Since you did bring up the worm thing; have you ever tried to look into the things that prove the validity of creation? You’re kind of saying I have a selfish one outlook kind of view, but I could easily say the same thing about you. Just because we could have the same DNA as a worm or some of these evolution theories, nobody has seen them evolve in recorded history. Theories do not make for scientific proof. That’s why they are called theories and You know what, sometimes it’s ok to just disagree. Everytime somebody wants to make a point they say some sort of statement about what they believe in before they finish on this blog. You would have to agree that even you keep making points about what you believe in. Belief is a part of each human being. Just because I think I’m right does not mean you have to become a Christian. Like you said this site is about people and their opinions. Everyone is usually trying to make their points mostly based on what they believe in and in response to what others are saying on here. If a person makes a point to disagree they don’t have to slam someone else’s belief, they can do it in a constructive way.
Debbie,
I agree with the second half of what you said. And honestly, to compare with your “I’m sick of people talking about God like He is some kind of alien,” From my perspective I am sick of religious people saying everyone who doesn’t believe is going to to hell. So you see and understand why I get a bit irritated as well. And I feel the only reason people are offended by statements that go against something in the bible is because they feel that is people saying they are wrong…when it is not. We are just saying a different perspective or belief in how and why life is here. One person asked me what I believe once and I didn’t answer, my last post kind of said it but I honestly feel that there is no real meaning for our life. All meanings people do have are what have been created by themselves to give a meaning and a purpose, which is fine, I mean everyone does it, that is what it is to be human; feel you have a purpose for being. I feel I can really come to terms with the concept that if the planet exploded (Which is actually physically impossible so far we know) that it would make no difference at all! The planet is so small in comparison to existence, and life is so rare that it is hard to imagine that the universe and world were actually made for it and revolve around it. I mean I think that atoms and gas and elements all of that in which life can not sustain itself is much more prevalent. Also I just remembered that all elements were made from hydrogen and carbon which put to extreme pressures and temp.’s form other elements such as iron etc. we are all stardust :) I like that. But If I had to say or classify what i feel God is I would say it is the feeling that something natural and pure can be so beautiful. AKA, I was on a mushrooms trip staring at the milky-way which was right over head and stretching across the sky into the ocean. I was able to ask my self what it was without the cloudiness of prior concepts (aka the drug allowed me to think without accessing prior knowledge). I could not get over the overwhelming emotion of beauty I felt while see the galaxy and decided that that feeling must be what people call “god”. Anything other then what I stated that people believe about what the def. of “god” is is not what I think. Anyways I feel that might have been way too much info and to personal but what the heck.
Christians, BIBLE believing Christians, are warned not to engage in arguments. God said “Come, let us reason together.” not Argue. When a person argues, she has already made a decision but a person who reasons,want to know and together they will reach a common decision. when someone says that there is no God, there BIBLE says “A foolin his heart says there is no God.” ans it continues to say “Never argue with a fool because people will never see the difference BUT never leave a fool unanswered lest he thinks himself wise.” With the bulk of evidence, can someone really say there is no God? Jesus never argued with satan but refered him to Scripture and when he failed to listen to sense, he rebuked him(satan) and he departed from him. When Peter came with questionable suggestion, Jesus just said “Get thee behind me devil”, because he realised, saw that it is not Peter who was suggeting but satan. Be careful, most of the time you are not arguing with people but satan himself through some people. Satan uses whomever he wants to, willlingly or unwillingly. God said “The battle is not yours but the Lord’s!” Let us not try to engage satan to war because the arm of flesh will really fail us. Satan is too old, too strong “thou not strong enough(Rev.12;7&8), very cunning, deceitful,etc to fight with without spiritual armaments. Let us pray for those who dispute this massive evidence about the existance of God because some of us were just like them until grace found us and redeemed us. Lisa, you can ask questions, you wont be burned in hell for asking, but for deliberate ignorance and hardening of your heart, you are judging yourself.
No one will be burnt in hell because she asked questions or because someone else said you will go to hell. Heaven or hell is a matter of onw choice. the BIBLE cautioned and warned BIBLE believing Christians never to argue over matters of faith. Most of the time Jesus taught instead of arguing. It is clearly written, God said, “Come, let us reason together”. Why do we decide to argue? when we reason together, we are striving to reach a common decision but when we argue, it simply means we have taken a standpoint and are not willing to be convinced by facts or reason- a waste of time. The BIBLE says “A fool in his heart says that there is no God. Never argue with a fool because people may not see the difference but never leave a fool unanswered lest he thinks himself wise.” Jesus never argued with satan, He referd the devil to Scripture and when satan refused to consider evidence, Jesus rebuked him and he departed.” When Peter made questionable suggestions, Jesus just said,”Get thee behind me satan!” because he heard, saw and realised that the opinion was not from Peter but satan speaking through Peter just as he spoke through the snake. Satan uses whomever, willingly or unwillingly. Let us pray for those who differ with us, those who refuse to acknowledge this massive evidence because we were once like them until grace found us.
Bakana,
I’m sure you mean well but it sounds like Lisa and are reasoning together just fine. You don’t understand the whole history here. I think her and I have a mutual understanding, so please just leave us at that. I think Lisa knows that I’ve never said she was going to hell that’s for God to judge not myself. The bible says he who wins souls is wise remember that verse bro? It’s better to get hit in the face by a friend than get a kiss from an enemy right??that’s biblical too. That’s not what I’m meaning towards Lisa. Lisa and I have a common understanding. P.S. Lisa The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. So I understand what you mean about seeing God in the beauty of the sky!
if u are not a muslim u ll not believe what its mean for u but check out every single miracle of islam. those are real.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUU
has anyone ever considered some of the ‘predator’ animals were brought on as possibly babies or even still inside of their egg shell… i think you are only thinking they come as full grown. mmmmm interesting. and yes the creatures of the sea probably didn’t have to get onboard. hope that helps.
Let’s also remember that they found compartments in the structure, duh, where predatory animals would probably have been kept from their “food source.” A question was asked in this thread a while ago about how the predatory animals were kept in with their prey. Hmmmm, why don’t you ask the many zoos around the country how they keep their predatory animals away from their prey. Again, duh . . . .
oh yeah then all you smartasses? since your so smart what else is this massive boat be atop a mountain in turkey??? its not like its some big hoax anyway!!! its impossible for anyone to bring the supplies to make such a big boat and not be noticed! you no nothing about the details and you just make up stuff that you trick yourself into thinking thats what you heard. and one of you losers even said that gods an alien!!!! WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING?
You are utterly hopeless my friend, as a geologist I know. Your so-called anomaly is nothing more that an igneous dike or sill partially covered, and that close up pic, is nothing more than tilited strata (look it up). Perhaps, you need to go back and take a 100 lvl Geology course or would Hay-sus frown on that? You damn fundamentalist are all the same…reject scientific facts!
Subfeldslith, I am not favorably impressed with you or your alleged profession when you brag and use bad language. If science is so great, you wouldn’t need to resort to such sludge.
The bible teaches that God is a trinity, and if that’s true, there should be evidence of this trinity all around us. Time itself is a trinity, past,present,future, completely different and separate but all time. Thermodynamics-matter cannot be created or destroyed, just changed back and forth. Water is heated and becomes vapor, froze and becomes solid, Water itself is a trinity liquid,vapor,and solid. This trinity is so embedded into our soul that we name our children first,middle,and last names. Fingerprints of a true God, Father,Son,and holy spirit are everywhere! Jesus Christ truly is God!
This boat up on the mountain thing reminds me of the face on mars. Shadowings that appear to represent an image based on the observer. I honestly do not see a boat and it is hard to even see one when I am biasedly looking for it….soooo yeah that is my conslusion on this finding.
As for many people on here talking junk you need to attend church sometime and learn about Gods work then you wouldn’t have DUMB and crazy questions like the animals eating each other, dieses, food, animals waste, God had this all worked out when he told Noah to build the Ark if he wouldn’t have then he wouldn’t had him build the Ark and put them all on it in the FIRST PLACE and he wouldn’t put his animals together if they were guna fight and eat each other and as far as food and the freshness God is merciful and he can do anything as providing fresh food and enough food for all that was on the Ark!!!!! If you would just take time out and read the Bible then you would learn a lot and u would even answer your on dumb founded questions!!!!!
http://ianjuby.org/newsletter/?p=307.
This is about the current Noah’s Ark “find” for those who are interested in knowledgeable comments about it.
Might we please ponder this…
When you were a child your parents and other grownups told you to believe things like:
-there was a santa claus that came down your chimney
-there was an easter bunny that went around the world leaving candy
-there was a tooth fairy that exchanged money for your teeth
-there was a stork that flew in and gave babies to mommies
-that the bible was written by god and everything in it was perfect and law
-there was a father in heaven that made you in his own image – but it was filled with sin
-etc…
Your parents might have also told you that:
-George Washington chopped down his dad’s cherry tree
-Paul Bunyan created the Grand Canyon with his axe and his giant ox was blue
-breaking a mirror gave you 7 years of bad luck
-all policemen and firemen are your friends
-god loved the USA more than other countries
-you could trust your teachers to take care of you
-you could trust your priest/minister to love you (if we only knew how!)
-they would never hurt you
THEN YOU GREW UP! – WOW! – You became a “somewhat” thinking human adult. You saw these stories as just myths (sweet lies) that parents tell their kids in order to fit into their CULTURE. Entire cultural and family calendars are based on holidays created through these myths – predating Christianity. You realized this. You may have been angry at the lies, or just laughed a bit and teased them for doing it, but you moved on in your thinking and never looked back. You kinda “got-it”.
So why is it that you can’t let go of the other myths your parents told you? For the same reason you now tell those same myths (sweet lies) to YOUR children. You are INDOCTRINATED. These things now make up a part of your very psyche. In some ways, it is like the heritage of physical abuse. If parents beat their children, those children grow up to be parents more likely to beat the next generation too.
In order to stop the circle of INDOCTRINATION, a human being must face up to the truth about themselves. They must make personal DECISIONS based on observations and reflection within their own soul. These decisions are just a person’s “BEST GUESS” and need to be respected by other people. If a person wants to keep those stories as true in their lives, let them. If a person wants to walk away from them, let them. – One constantly agreed upon AXIOM between secular and sacred, is that “people are not perfect”… so the best thing to to is give everybody plenty of room to be themselves, be kind, loving and polite and honor your contracts.
I am ashamed of each of you that has continued the feud of “name calling” and denigrating of one another on this blog thread. Regardless of your theistic viewpoint, it gets you nothing but disrespect reflected right back at you. I call on each of you to reflect upon your future entires prior to publishing them. If you think that god would use the same words against your intellectual opponent, then go ahead, use them. I think that upon such reflection, fewer words of hate might find their way into this conversation. If not, then you certainly have shown us what kind of person you really are… and as you say, “God is watching and keeping score”… You might be surprised on your judgment day what a great memory he has…
Now, are we all going to be nice boys and girls and play well together, or does daddy have to come downstairs and settle this his own way?
Best of life and love,
Greg
I have read through some of the comments posted here, by the faithful, skeptical, and the non-believers.
I think the most important thing to remember is that faith and science are not often good bed fellows. Those who believe, you cannot and should not try to change their minds because what they believe is from their heart – they know it no matter that it cannot be touched with their hands. Those who are non-believers are the SAME WAY! Non-believers have faith in the assurance of non-existence, because it cannot be touched.
I do not claim to be religious – I believe in spirituality more than anything, but the one thing I do know is that I have experienced things in this world that cannot be explained by science. That being said, I don’t feel any religion has it right. The books we base our faiths on, the bible the Qur’an (both of which I have read) are beautiful expressions of faith as well as representations of the good and bad sides of human expression. There is hate and violence and war in both books. These things are HUMAN, not spiritual – we reflect on God words and actions what belong to us because we do not know what guides their actions. “You know not what I know.” – God said this in the Bible and the Qur’an. Though the books are represented as Allah/God’s word as put down by prophets and the faithful, they were in fact written and copied and translated / edited (the bible much more than the Qur’an, though there is question about 2 important verses in that as well) by MEN. These men write down visions and experiences but as so many of us have experienced, perception varies widely between individuals and what I see as one thing is seen in a different view by someone else.
I think what I want to make clear is that faith is difficult to change – people kill for faith, fight wars because of faith, and are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. But an idea – the idea that mankind is a beautiful creation (no matter if you believe that creation evolved from apes or from Adam and Eve – which is in both books) and capable of as much beauty, emotion, and self sacrifice as we are capable of hate and violence – this idea is what we all need to be reminded of. An idea can evolve and adjust and change!
If you do it because you believe, because you don’t, or because you don’t know – treat your fellow human beings with respect. Honor them for being the same and for being different. Do not judge them on what they look like, who their parents are, or what religion or country they live in – but on how they treat their fellow humans.
Thank you JJ!
Let’s get serious. All he would need is the genetic material guys.
An honest skeptic is one who will question what he/she hears, learns, and believes while being willing to listen to reasoned arguments. A scoffer is one who will belittle any idea outside of his own personal paradigm.
To those who are willing to think, please consider this. The Ark probably did not contain as many animals as one might think on first glance. Many animals would not require being in the ark to survive as a species. No insects would need to be in it, since even if none survived directly their eggs could withstand the aqueous situation. Amphibians would not need to reside in the ark either. Many reptiles would not also. Many aquatic birds would have survived, and even some aquatic mamals.
Also, many of the objections would be decreased by taking the young of the animals in the ark, and not the adults. Really cut down on the food needed, as well as the waste. (By the way, many animals from different species have been brought up together from birth without incidents. The young are much esier to handle than the adults.)
Also, it would not be necessary to take every breed of dog, cat, sheep etc. Just a male and a female from every different kind of animal, not every breed of animal.
Taking these items into account greatly reduces the amount of animals needed, and the difficulty in taking care of them.
I am sure that most people know that the Ark contained mamals and various other creatures that would not make it fore 40 days and nights in the water… So thank you Mr Rooker for stating the obvious!
There are some pewople here with serious issues (Greg)…
Good, Rooker.
Dear Mr. Johann:
Nobody “knows” anything about the Ark other than it is described and referenced in a bible story, as well as dozens of writings even older than the bible. Stephen Hawkings and others even suggest that it may even be a metaphorical reference about an ancient story of a race of people (possible our ancestors) that travelled from another planet to earth in order to escape a planet killing cataclysm there. None of these theories are prove-able. People just take them on faith or entertain them on the basis of what they feel would be most likely. To stand and declare any ancient myth, religious story or scientific theory as fact without any living witnesses or proof is not right. It would never be admissable in court.
So based on your comments (and digs against me and Mr. Rooker) I guess you are one of those people that still didn’t “get it”. That’s OK, the world needs a supply of wool, too. Please say hello to Santa Claus when he comes down your chimney. The rest of us will be wraping gifts for our kids.
Best!
Greg
P.S. Youth is wasted on the young!
Yes, Johan, I have stated the painfully obvious. Something so obvious that many do not even consider it when they make rants against the idea of the Flood and Noah’s ark. As several responses in this thread have done.
A disagreement with an honest skeptic is far more satisfying than an agreement with a scoffer.
ok this whole food stuff is simply, not all the animals could have made it as some of you said, but animals could have eaten other animals and thus some most of the extitinct animals but other animals would have been easy to provide food for, such as the giraffe, they most likely had one area of food for carnivals and one area for herbivores. and he probaly tried to keep them as far away from each other as possible.
OK.. does anybody notice that the bible gives no record of how Noah supposedly managed all these questions about animal husbandry? (e.g. food, getting along with predators, etc.) You also get nothing about plants, the food of most of the animals of the earth. You get a story about a boat with dimensions, some doves flying around and a lot of meaningless dribble. But where is all the detail about the “real work” that would have been required to pull the whole thing off? It’s not there.
If God thought it was so darn important to tell you about this boat, don’t you think he would have wanted to use the life-lessons learned while Noah and his family lived on the boat to pass down for your eventual wisdom? My point is that God would not have left out something so important. This is why I feel the story was adapted from ancient pre-jewish oral traditions and is an extension of human mythology. By the way, the story of Noah is a Jewish story, not a Christian story.
It is helpful to remember that Jesus was not a Christian either, he was a Jew (and a darn good one). He was gone for a century before anyone even invented the name Christian. He brought some great ideas to bear upon civilization and was probably the first “Ralph Nader” type in history (defender of the common man) Before that, Jews defined themselves as pre (non-followrs) or post (followers) Messianic Jews. But then again, you would all have to study real Jewish and Christian theology and history to know anything other than what you hear from a well dressed preacher on Sunday Morning.
So keep it up. It is entertaining to read how powerfully so many of you believe things that are just unfounded, and how some of you take your best guesses and decide they are dogma. No wonder we humans kill each other in the name of God. If everyone put their passion into being of service to others (like Jesus did) instead of running off at the mouth, the world would be a happier place.
Feel free to shoot at me all you want. I know I’m safe.
Greg
Laura B. Your comments are logical for today’s thinking. But this was about 4500 years ago. All animals were originally plant eaters. To put it another way, there were no carnivores originally. There might possibly have been some animals that had become carnivorous by the time of Noah–we do not know that for sure. We do know that, even today, most carnivores can survive and even thrive on plant diets. Zoos sometimes feed a plant diet to some supposed “carnivores”, either all the time or in times of war or other situations where meat is not attainable. Domestic “carnivores” are also sometimes vegetarian. Have you noticed that more and more the high end cat and dog foods are full of grains and vegetables. Vets sometimes prescribe vegetables for pets. A dog I knew was required to eat green beans twice a day to loose weight. Male cats are supposed to be fed cranberry or tomato juice to keep their ureters unobstructed, the same as for male humans. In the last 4500 years, some “carnivores” may have lost some of their original ability to digest solely plant food or may have come to prefer flesh. But 4500 years ago, Noah would have had access to animals who were total vegetarians. Furthermore, the point of taking the animals on board was so that none of them would become extinct, so none of them were eaten on board.
Whoever said Jesus was a Christian? He was NOT a Christian, He was/is the Christ. And it did not take a century for the term “Christian” to be invented. The use of the term started in Antioch, a Greek town, about 20 years after the Ressurection of Christ (Messiah). It probably started as an insult.
As far as the details of animal husbandry being missing from the account, it is missing because it is not the point of the passage. The Hebrews knew a lot about animal husbandry, and did not need such in the story of Noah. What they did need was the message of God’s Justice and Mercy. Justice to those who did evil, Mercy to those who repented and obeyed God (Noah did so by building the Ark).
Nor has anyone said that the Story of Noah is original with Moses. It is our contention that every ancient culture has a “Flood story”. Yes, even cultures that came before the writings of Moses. Moses rendition comes from much further in the past than when Moses wrote it. Moses account is unique in it’s message of God’s justice in judging early man, and His love for mankind in saving a Remnant. A theme that goes through the whole Bible, Old and New Testaments.
Some should quit listening to the scoffers, and find out what they are really talking about. A true skeptic would have much better arguments.
As far as this argument about what the carnivores ate on the ark, I have suggested already that if the young were taken in the ark instead of adults it would cut down on the food requirements. Hasn’t anyone thought of the fact that said carnivores could have consumed the milk of herbivores? Especially when they were young? This would give a continuing food source. And, as Mars Star has stated, even today we do feed vegitaion to carnivores. Between these two items there would be no problem.
Another objection has been about these animals wandering around and eating each other. Has no one ever heard of cages? To say nothing of the fact that there are many stories of young carnivores being raised with other animals without problems. The young are much easier to deal with.
To believe or not to believe, this is the question =) If believing in God’s supreme might that is enough to do anything was so easy, belief would be a worthless thing, for everyone would believe in it. Some people choose to question God with their brains, they cannot understand it and do not find it logical, eventually they choose not to believe. And some people choose to question God, and when they see that God is more than their brains can comprehend, they are dazzled by His Greateness and they believe =)
This is why belief is precious, it is not easy.
you no what i think this is real because noah build the ark in the 1800s an this could be a big discovery. these pictures seem so real an they do look like a boat.sooo if you dont believe in this the go to hell. this is sooo amazing and interesting to here about i love this. keep looking and dont give up.make an even bigger discovery by proving these dumby this is real. i believe in it.prove that this is real an keep looking an searching i do believe in you guys.
OMG… I could be cruel to poor Jennifer, but I’ll leav this to the “thumpers” to straighten her out… after all, she’s one of yours…
(kinda prooves the whole point of “ignorance is bliss”, doesn’t it folks)
Jennifer;
I do not know where you are coming from, but as a Christian we do not tell those who disagree with us to “go to Hell”. The Gospel is about reconciliation to God through Jesus.
I too hope that this proves to be the Ark, but the evidence is not in yet. No matter what happens, the debate will go on. Let us use thoughtfull debate and not curses.
Greg;
With all due respect to Jennifer, how do you know she is one of ours? I hope she is, and just has poor skills with language, but I have seen some who are “anti-Christian” post things like this to make Christians look foolish. I am not saying this is the case, but I have seen it happen. Malice can be desguised as ignorance.
Hey Carl:
Good point. I suppose people might do that. I just can’t imagine folks wasting time like that when they could just speak their mind. Solid reply to Jen as well. I am glad to see the best face of christianity expresed through your comments. Nicely done. You have to admit the comment was amusing, Hoah builing the ark in the “1800’s” and all. I guess they reused the ship to help move slaves out of the south for the underground railroad??? LOL oh, well, everyone is in a different place of learning and evolving in their knowledge. No harm, no foul.
Best!
Greg
Thanks Greg.
I am kind of wondering where the 1800 comment came from myself.
Carl
It may be time for skeptics to stop the jabberwocky and begin to try and formulate a serious theory as to just what it is that this exploration team may have found and why it exists at 4000 meters on Ararat. Your naysaying and derisive comments will not be sufficient to make this discovery go away if in fact it returns a positive result and even fractionally begins to back up the Bible story of the Noahic flood. The Chinese/Turk team has not backed down an iota on their claim; rather, they are now soliciting scientific help from qualified sources to help establish their find. Moreover, there is a sense from the general public as well as qualified individuals that the hoax theory may be a hard sell. Even the most serious of skeptics has to harbor doubts about the feasibility of building nothing short of what could only be described as an elaborate ‘movie set’ near the top of a mountain of incredibly treacherous ascent without the help of machinery and personnel on a grand scale. Skeptics are good at making noise and throwing dust in the air. That maneuver may not work this time however. If this situation hangs around, you are going to need some ideas. Real ones.
Dear seekandfind:
I love the challenge, albeit without comparative evidence, an academic one. You obviously have both sides of your brain plugged in and that is awesome. Let us, for the sake of discussion propose two possibilities: 1) this is Noah’s Ark. 2) it is 100,000 years old. Please address the biblical dilemma that this hypothetical presents.
Yours in friendly discussion…
Greg
Greg;
Why are you proposing this object may be 100,000 years old? I may be missing something.
Carl
Hey Carl:
Last i checked, nobody has taken a sample of it and dated it. It could be any age, but I tossed in 100,000 as a place of discussion. The notion is, “What if the Noah story is right, but it happened more than 5,000 years ago?” How would one resolve the differences in bible time-line accounting?
Just out there as a what if.
Greg
Actually, I am not married to the idea that mankind is only about 6000 years old. I know, Bishop Usher added up the years in the geneaolgies in the Bible amd came up with a date. Problem I have is that the subject of the Bible is not how old the earth is. The subject of the Bible is God’s relationship to Mankind, and how that was destroyed by sin, and His Work in reconciliation. So, I have no problem with the idea that Mankind may be older than 6000 years. I believe that the geneologies were probably abreviated to keep them from becoming too long and cumbersome.
That being said, are you aware of the two genetic studies that conclude that Mankind went through a near extinction level event? The first one using mitochondrial DNA states this happened about 80,000 years ago. The second one says about a million years ago. The point being that these studies and the Bible all state that early in the history of Mankind we were almost wiped out, and the witnesses to the event (all cultures) state that it was a world wide flood.
I do not know if this artifact is in fact Noah’s Ark. I hope it is, and that it is proven, but my faith is not in a single artifact. However, whether it is 5000 years old, 10,000 years old, or even a million years old it would be amirical if it survived.
Hey Carl:
I gotta say I really like your way of thinking and openness to all possibilities. It is actually more open then a lot of my science-only friends. You show everyone how faith and scientific research can live side by side. Without being married to details, you are free to interpret new information in support of scientific understanding as seen in the light of biblical examples, or, biblical passages compared to scientific discoveries that in and of themselves, may be just terrific life lessons/metaphors, or actual accountings. The point you make about the bible being about man’s history with God is right on. It really does not matter if everything happened exactly as written. What matters is if the bible speaks to your heart and helps you live a better, more spiritually authentic life. In the absence of such an important and defining book, I cannot imagine how much more screwed up the world might be.
So thank you for letting me feel a moment of kinship with a fellow traveler in life’s journey to discover the mind of God and all the cool little mystereies that are yet to be discovered.
Best!
Greg
Greg;
Thanks for the glowing compliments. But my attitude comes from the fact that I know I do not know everything. And, just as much, I know that no one else does either (despite proclamations to the contrary).
I joined this discussion because I found some who use absurd assumptions to argue their points. So, I challenged those assumptions. My hope is that some will take up the challenge, and either come up with better assumptions or consider that they may need to learn more. Thus the definition I gave for the difference between a true skeptic and a scoffer. Or;
Isa 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together,”says the LORD. NIV
Now, do you know about the two studies I mentioned?
Carl
ohhh saya salut banget, apa itu benar perahu Nabi Nuh As
if the boat/ark isn’t Noah’s then who else would it belong too….
i really didn’t believe in any of the bible stories, starting to now though. idk im iffy about this but still its a really old boat in a mountain unexplainable its nuts its Noahs Ark.
Ok, I do believe in Noah’s Ark, and the Great Flood. But, I have to start with some skeptism about whether this is the Ark.
What needs to happen to proove this is the Ark?
1. The original team must take an independant team back to the same place, and find the same artifact.
2. The artifact must actually be the remains of a large boat, and not just a series of rooms built into the rock and glaciers.
3. It must be demonstrated that the artifact did carry animals. Hair, dung, food scraps being identified would be a good start. Identifying each of these from several species of animals would go even further.
4. Although I am not real confident with many dating techniques, it does need to be demonstrated that this artifact is ancient, and not a recent construct.
5. Can it be proven that this artifact actually did spend time in the overflowing oceans (Flood)?
Anybody else have any other ideas?
Carl
Nice list Carl…
We could add (for tests):
a) Iron Metal – since the earth’s magnetic poles shift over time, the magnetic alignment of any iron or nickel when it was molten and then cast would have been in alignment with the poles of the day and different from today and eras since. Comparisons between such metal found in the remains of the artifact could be made to approximate its time of construct.
b) Wood – all trees have their own unique cellular and organism structure and DNA. If the artifact is, in fact, comprised of petrified wood, an analysis of a cross section of this wood might identify the species of tree that was used to create it and help point to the locale and time period of its origin. So, for example, if the wood were from a tree that was very close to the artifact, it would say that it did not travel far, or if from somewhere far away, would indicate the opposite.
c) Insect Larvae – various wood boring insects lay their eggs in rotting wood. If this artifact is in fact petrified wood, from an abandoned ship, it is possible that the waterlogged wood might have provided a nice habitat for such insects. Because insects are simple animals, entomologists have found that they evolve quickly to adapt to changes in environment. By identifying any insect larvae (or adults) that were trapped in the wood, one might be able to date the artifact and even theorize on its original location, if the insect evidence showed that these animals were from a distant origin and not indigenous to the location of the artifact.
Hope that helps,
Greg
Good original thinking Greg;
If the artifact is in fact found again, and found to actually be a boat, these tests would prove facinating no matter what the artifact was concluded to be.
Assuming that it is the Ark, are you assuming it traveled a great distance during it’s voyage? I don’t think anyone has any idea how far it drifted, but it would be worth investigating.
Carl
I have no preexisting notion as to how far “the Ark” might have travled. So many cultures share the ancient saga, no doubt handed down through oral tradition before being set to text, that I am in no way qualified to say from which culture the story may have originated. For all I know, the thing could have started out in China. Such is the nature of historical discovery. Evidence, if not viewed without predjudice, can point to exactly what you want it to point. So from my point of observtion, the Ark/Flood story belongs to all of mankind.
Now, what it tells me to do is this…. Make the eventual migration/movement of human beings off the earth a priority. For when the sun finally goes red-giant, or that stray asteroid finds us, the consequences will be dire. So to me it is a lesson of preparedness, not just a lesson about sin.
Thoughts?
Greg
Greg,
I see what you are saying, and agree with how at one point or another our world will be at and end. But what that says to me is, the meaning of humans is what humans make it to be. The existence of life or humans really means nothing in the whole scheme of things. Existence just is, and our part in the universe is minuscule and meaningless. But in order to cope with this and death, and to attempt to understand our life, we create the illusion that there is a purpose.
When the sun does go red giant our planet will be gone. And so will we. And it will make no difference what so ever to the rest of existence. So Why do we fight with each other over something that has no meaning? I say the fighting creates a reason to believe, mine is better than yours ideology. We won because my belief is right reinforces the idea that the belief is true.
I know the world has had many natural disasters. I know that history shows not world wide floods, but large floods in several different parts of the world, which to those who lived there at the time would perceive as world wide. These floods were documented well before the christian religion (Moses etc.) What does it mean? Everyone wants a reason to live, a reason to feel worth. To challenge a persons belief system is to challenge what they see as their worth and meaning/purpose of living.
Greg;
I too believe that the Flood Story belongs to all cultures. Indeed, if you take the Bible literally, the Flood happened long before Christianity, even long before Judaism. It happened long before the Father of the Hebrews, Abraham. There are something like 250 distinct and separate accounts of this Flood, and of someone being saved, along with the animals, in a boat. The question here is not the Judeo/Christian take on the Flood and the Ark, but on whether the Flood ever happened and whether the Ark still exists (and if it actually has been found).
Since both you and Lisa have brought up the “meaning” end of this discussion, I state only that the Judeo/Christian take on the Flood is one of the Justice of God, and His Mercy. Both at this early time in Human history, and at the end of this History. But this is not the debate, so I leave it here.
Lisa;
My personal belief about the Flood is that these many ancient “mega floods” were simply a manifestaion of the Great Flood. Again, the many very similar accounts point to a common, single source.
There have been some who have stated that the filling of the Black Sea was Noah’s Flood. For some reason (unknown) the Mediterainian Sea burst through and filled this basin quickly. About the same time, in the Western Hemisphere, Clovis Man and the Mega Fauna of that continent became extinct. Also the Mamoths of Siberia. Something very definately happened, and the witnesses said it was a world wide Flood.
Question?:
How can a person from that long ago know if a flood was world wide? I mean they thought the planet was flat so I guess then the concept of it being all land encompassing would make sense. But in all reality it does not. The concept of how big the world was and the different continents was no where near in the knowledge of these people. The whole world was where they lived.
Lisa;
This is a good question. However, it is based on an unprovable assumption. I will probably get some grief for stating this, but how do you know that these ancients believed that the world was flat?
True, later peoples believed that the world was flat, but we do not know what these ancients believed about it.
The Bible states quite imfatically that before the Flood people were accomplished in agriculture, culture, and metalurgy. This was at least hundreds (most probably thousands of years) before the bronze and iron ages began (Genisis chap. 4). These people were far more sophisticated that we modern people give them credit for. Now, I do not know if they knew the world was round either, but let us not let unfounded assumptions drive what we believe about them.
Now, anonther point. I have already stated that 2 genetic studies have suggested that early humankind went through a near extinction level event. What ever this event was, it was at least anthropologically universal. They said it was geographically universal.
About the geographical universality of the Flood. As Lisa stated, we do now know that there were several mega floods in the ancient world. The Black Sea event being one of them (which some have called Noah’s Flood). This is a relatively new field of science, and I am sure that eventually we are going to know about many more of these mega floods.
Many of these happened about 10 to 15 thousand years ago. We also know that about this time the mega fauna of North America and Clovis Man became extinct. Also at least the mamoths of Siberia. On at least 3 continents there were mass extinctions that happened approximately the same time. Something drastic happened. There are those who think it was one or more comet strikes. Some even believe that some of these comet strikes caused some of the mega floods.
Wheter a comet strike was involved or not (I do not believe so), something drastic happened at that time. The withnesses said it was a world wide flood.
Just as a proposition, early man probably lived close to the seas and rivers, right? (no need for plumbing). If an asteroid or meteor(s) crashed into the ocean, what level of tidal waves (tsunamis) would be formed. Back then, anything that fell from the sky was considered “god throwing stuff at you” so you must have been bad. If the impact was in a remote location, then people may have not seen the impact and not been able to make a mental connection with the soon-to-follow wall of water. Even if this did not “flood” the land for a long time, might it have served to substantially eradicate enough of humanity living along shores to be worthy of this epic story?
Just a thought as to the possibility of why it may be such a global story…
Greg;
Possibly. Obviously we have had comets or asteroids fall into the ocean. Since the Earth is over 2/3 water it is far more likely that a hit would happen in the ocean than on land, and we know for a true fact that the land has been hit.
However, if this artifact that the blog is about is indeed Noah’s Ark, it would have to have been one “hell” of an asteroid and tidal wave to deposit the Ark on this mountain. I think another explanation is in order.
An important item you neglect is in the legends of the Flood. The Bible, the Epic of Gilgemesh (SP?) and others tell us that God (or the Gods) warned mankind to build the vessle of their salvation, and one man obeyed that warning. Or to put it another way, not only did the witnesses say it was a world wide flood, but they were warned about it.
Carl
Greg;
About the asteroid/comet theory;
There are some who do believe that the Great Flood was the result of such an event. Noting the universality of the legends, and what they call “Chevrons” in many areas.
These “Chevrons” are believed to be the result of a mega tsunami, and are the debris patterns left after extremely large waves washed onto land, sometimes miles inland. You can see the same thing on a much smaller scale on any beach with wave action. Each wave will leave a pattern in the sand when it withdraws.
Seeing such “Chevrons” in Affica, India, and other places, they speculate that at one time a large asteroid/comet hit the Indian Ocean, caused a mega-tsumai, and that these caused the legends of the Great Flood.
As I said in my previous message, if this is what happened, and if the artifact we are talking about is actually Noah’s Ark, then the impact and resulting mega-tsunami would have had to have been the result of one “hell” of an asteroid/comet to deposit the artifact so high on a mountain so far inland so far from the Indian Ocean. There would have been many other effects of such an large scale impact.
Although intriguing, I believe that there is another explanation for these Chevrons that may be a much better explanation of the Flood. Just a hint now, but the modern tides also leave such Chevrons, just on a much smaller scale than this.
Hey Carl:
That’s good input and a good lead for where to look. Suppose that the the particular event was not a single foreign body hitting the earth, but rather a cluster of object that resulted in multiple impacts. I think this is within reason. If, say, a comet were to have collideed with an asteroid or other object in space and have been broken apart, the constituent fragments might have al maintained a fairly coherent trajectory and hit earth similar to a shotgun blast.
Now, the fun part of the question elucidated by the legend remains; How did primitave man, without a full understanding of astronomy, predict that it would be necessary to secure a sample of living things and have need to build a craft such as the Ark in otder to protect them?
The three most obvious and popular theories are of course, 1) “God” (jut because he cared) 2) benevolent/concerned aliens (“gods”) acting as watchmen for early humanity and 3) that humanity itself is comprised of aliens that crash landed here eons ago and back then, they had the knowledge of what to observe.
It is all very interesting stuff. If I were retired and had more time to invest in this instead of just being an interested skeptic, it would make for a most fun-filled hobby to go globe-trotting in search of the answers…. Maybe in a few years after all the kids are grown, we could do that! LOL!
Best!
Greg
Greg;
You forgot one possibility. That is that before the Flood Humankind was far more sophisticated than we give them credit for, and they figured it out for themselves. Then their civilization was wiped out. Of course, you know my favorite theory.
The idea that the mechanism of the Flood being comets or asteroids is interesting. Such could (maybe) account for two other things that happened during it.
1. The 40 days and nights of rain. The amount of water and water vapor cast into the air during such multiple strikes would cause it to rain big time, and for an extended period of time.
2. The “Fountains of the Great Deep Burst forth”. No one knows exactly what was meant by this. Could have been volcanoes, gysers, or underground resevouirs bursting, but the multiple strikes you envision could very well account for this.
Problems with the idea;
1. If a “shotgun blast” effect is what happened, then it would be likely that 2/3 of the objects hit the oceans, while 1/3 hit the land. There would be evidence of this, and I think it is lacking.
2. Whether 1 very big strike, or the multiple strikes would creat a lot of damage other than to flood the coastal areas. These would heat the atmosphere up to the point of starting the vegetation on fire. There would be a lot os soot and ash from the strike itself, and the fires that followed. Where is the evidence for this? (Remember, only the coastal areas would be inundated, putting the fires out there. Not hundreds of miles inland.)
However, I think you are correct in looking to the heavens for the mechanism of the Flood. At one time I would have agreed with you about the possibility of a comet/asteroid strike. However, I could not explain everything with it, nor account for the lack of evidence. I could be wrong, but I have come upon another idea.
If you are interested in this idea (way to long an explanation for this forum) then email me at;
krooker@dnx.net
and I will send you what I have in mind.
Carl
About the argument about what the carnivores ate on the ark. Had an idea today that never occured to me.
Many of the smaller animals that were on the Ark were probably very prolific. The Rodentia particulary. Especially the rabbits. Also some species of birds (doves and pegions particularly)
Also, there were probably very few carnivores compared to the herbivores.
If something were not done to kurb the population of these highly prolific animals, they would over run the Ark (I am supprised this was not raised as an objection).
It would appear that the carnivores would have a source of meat.
Carl:
This is a very keen observation. Why would the balance of natural selection change on an Ark… it would not. The only problem the Ark story has in terms of its feasability is its lack of documentaion of plant life. Is that an oversight by the people tht wrote this down? (in otherwords, did they think the question asked and answered…)
Greg
Grteg;
Actually they do mention the plant life on the ark;
Ge 6:21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.”
They do not list every type of plant for the same reason they do not list every specific type of animal. That is not the subject of the story. God’s mercy is.
Carl
hi..
i don’t mean to offend any one but if god wanted to kill some and save which ever he/she/it wanted,why need noah’s ark? after all god has all the power to do as god wishes right???? why would turkey hide if it was NOAH’S ARK for real? it always been religion suppressing scientific facts that could cause damage to its reputation why hide some thing like this? may be its not what its said to be..may be a part of the story is true but who knows,we are never told of the truth to its full extend,well keep us guessing its fun..
Mario;
Your question brings up a good point, and that is the reason for God using a Flood to judge mankind. It was not a situation where God killed whom He wished and left alive who He wished (although you are correct, He could do so if that were His intention.)
In this case God warned mankind. Anyone who believed Him could have built a boat and saved themselves. Only one man (and his family) did believe God and built the Boat. It all boiled down to who believed Him and acted on that belief. He who had faith, lived.
You also have a common misconception. Yes, some religious people have tried to suppress science by religion. It is not belief in God that suppressed science, but some people who prostituted religion for their own purposes. Even in the case of Galileo, he did not get into trouble because he believed that the planets (and the Earth) revolved around the Sun. Their point was that he had not proven it yet (which was true), and what got him into trouble was the way he treated those who opposed him. The last straw was a paper he wrote which alluded to the Pope as “Simplus”.
On the same token there are those who have falsely suppressed belief in God on the basis of science. The communist party of the Soveit Union and China are prime examples of this, where they actually killed hundreds of millions of people.
Also, I a m not so sure Turkey is hiding the Ark, as much as it is just plain hard to find.
Carl
One other point.
Those who use the “religion suppresses science” argument seem to fail to see this; Science and Technology have prospered best in the nations that have a Christian heretage. The Renisance (SP?) happened in Italy. The Reformation in Nothern Europe embraced science. Same for Germany. Let us not forget America as well.
Yes, there were some who prostituted the Christian Faith to suppress those who disagreed with them, but these people persecuted Christians as much (and more) than anyone else. The term “heritic” referred to someone in the Church who taught things different than what the persecuters (in this place the Inquisition) taught. As many as 25 million were killed in a couple of centuries.
On the same token, atheists in the Communist Party (not all atheists) killed a couple of hundred million in about 50 years for not believing as they dictated. These were also responsible for countless wars in the 3rd quarter of the 20th century.
So, please get it straight. It is not religion or Faith that suppresses science. It is evil people who pervert anything to get their own way.
the story i heard was that Noah was visited by 2 angels who told him of the flood to come,and,he was to spread the word.i believe it was Coopernicus to put sun in the center of the solar system and his work was put on shelf till a while after his death by catholic church in Italy and some suggest that the idea of the sun being in the center was borrowed or stolen by him from muslim scientists.
Mario;
Unless it was a non Biblical legend, the 3 angels visited Abraham and told him about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah. Then two of them went to Lot and got him out of the city. Whoever told who about the coming flood, it was still those who believed and acted that were saved. Noah spent 120 years building the
Ark, and I am sure he got a lot of ribbing for it.
Did not say that Galileo originated the idea, but he was the one who saw the moons of Jupiter, and figured that the solar system acted in the same way.
As far as saying someone stole the idea, let’s be serious. The idea came up many times, and at the time of Galileo it was a hot topic of discussion. And, for the record, there were catholics on both sides of the issue. It ws not the Catholic Church suppressing it. There were Catholics that opposed the idea, but there were those who liked it too.
OK I’ll explain. “How can they eat if they didn’t eat the smaller animals?” Well, they didn’t go 2 by 2. That’s a very common misconception. They went ALOT more than 2 by 2. They ate some of the animals. “How did they use the bathroom?” Have you ever thought of DUMPING?
Yep, the 2X2 statement is that the animals came into the Ark in pairs. In the next chapter we read that of the “unclean” animals there was 1 pair each, and of the “clean” animals there were 7 pairs.
Now, 2 points about this.
1. There are far more types of “unclean” animals in the world than “clean”.
2. There are far more herbivores in the world than there are carnivores.
So, the proportion of “clean” to “unclean” was probably pretty high, the actual number of “clean” animals was probably fairly low.
Also, the amount of carnivores was very low. As I stated in a previous post, there were some animals (particularly the Rodentia) that were highly proliflic. The overpopulation of these would easily be food for the carnivores. Especially if the carnivores were the young specimiens (babies).
Also, since they were taking pairs of kinds of animals, not pairs of species of animals, there were far fewer animals on the Ark than is popularly thought. Don’t get me wrong, it was quite a large list, just not as large as some think. The sanitation problem would be large, but not as large as some have stated. “Dumping” may have aleivated this further.
Carl
i dont believe in religion ,tho i really hope that there is a god and heavens other wise our life just doesn’t have a meaning.
I am glad to hear that. Religion has been defined as Man’s attemtp to reach God. That is why all of the rules, regulations, ceremonies, jihads and religious wars.
The Christian Faith (apart from the Christian Religion) is about God reaching down to Mankind, and restoring His relationship with Mankind. The act is God’s, not mankinds.
I do not mean this post as prosylitizing, but the point is very important to understand the significance of the Story of Noah’s Flood. God was going to judge mankind, and warned mankind. It was not those who sacrificed animals, obeyed complex rules and regulations, nor those who spent their lives killing the ungodly who were saved from the Flood. It was only those who believd God, and acted upon that belief.
I just think its not about punihment, unless one thinks that punishment is the result of being stupid or ignoring good advice. (e.e. If you stand there that brick is gonna fall on your head.) I think Carl is right in that the Noah story does not punish the good or bad, it punishes the stupid and arrogant.
Good explanation, Carl Rooker. Mario, you are right in expecting life to have meaning. Your Creator definitely created you for a wonderful purpose for this time in history and for your situation, just like He created Noah for a great purpose for his time in history; and He offers you a fabulous eternal life. Of course, God offered all the other people on earth then (and now) a purpose and a wonderful life, but most choose to ignore Him, and then they wonder why they suffer the consequences of that.
For people that say “Wasn’t Noah like a thousand years old or something?”, here is what you should think: Back then, they might have had a different calander. And you also have to remember that July and August were months named after Julius Caesar and Agustus Caesar and they weren’t even born at that time. Also they might have had different lengths of time than what we have now so that is something that you should take into concideration. I myself am a Catholic and who knows, maybe God allowed Noah to live that long. But I don’t just want to say “Oh God made it that way so that is why it is like that.” I like to actually find out how and why it is like that and not just say “The apple falls off of the tree because God made it fall” or “You got sick because you pissed God off”. I like facts to answer my questions and not just God-this-God-that stuff.
If God actually did do something, then what is wrong with saying He did?
That is like buying a bicycle for your child, and instead of thanking you they call up the store you bought it from and thanking them.
Any question such as “why did a disease not spread?” or “why did predators not eat the smaller animals?” easily gets answered by saying that God had an order/plan for it.
What I would like to know please, is how an arc of this size (although obviously rather large)could physically fit 2 of every species or indeed 7 of each (as ive read in several versions) into this space?
Estimates state there are around 10 million species on Earth. Even if this is some way off I fail to see how so many animals fit on one boat.
This has actually been answered several times in this blog.
First off, the Bible does not say that 2 of every species were aboard the Ark. It says two of every kind. What that means is that there would not have to be 20 million animals on the Ark. More like 1/1000 of your figure.
Second, not all kinds of animals would need to have been on the Ark. Many kinds of animals would have survived just fine outside the Ark. Any amphibian, most reptiles, all insects, and many others would not have had to been on the Ark.
Third, If I were Noah, I would not take the adults of most of the animals. Only the young. Doing so would ease the feeding problems, the sanitaion problems, and the problem of the animals getting along. Not only that, but anyone with any kind of brains would have had any dangerous animals in cages. And probably all of the rest anyway.
Fourth, several kinds of animals would have been prolific. They would breed alot. I am sure that for the most part the males were kept separate from the females, but I would also think that some would be allowed to breed to provide meat for the few carnivores that would have been there.
Fifth, I do not know that there was not some disease on the Ark. However, with the points made above, the opportunity for a real problem would be much less.
By the way, the “7 of each kind” was actually 7 of every clean kind of animal, not 7 of every kind of animal.
So, it would appear that although difficult, the problems you pose were far less than you imagine.
So, I have answered your questions without referring to the “God had a plan” argument. Even though He did have a plan, and it worked.
Hello Bloggers, Very interesting subject Noah’s Ark! Those who believe, it is a saving grace and those who don’t it shall be a testimony against them.
And the disciples came unto Jesus privately asking, what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world? And Jesus said unto them, take heed that no man deceive you. As the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days of Noah that were before the flood they were eating and deinking, marrying and given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark. And they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. But of that day and hour no man knows, not even the angels, but the Father only. Watch therefore: for you do not know what hour your Lord will come, be ready for the Son of man comes when you least expect it……Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Book of Matthew, Chpt.24
Obviously, Jesus beleived The story of Noah and equates The days before the flood to these last days….the earth was filled with violence…. God saw the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually Gen. Chapt 6
Maybe all the stir these days about Noah’s ark is a sign, a warning that judgement is near just as it was in those days. Take heed!!!
Hey, I cant read all of the posts to see if anyone mentioned it but i needed to say that only certain animals were put on the ship, the fact that we now believe all kinds of animals were on that big boat is because of deliberate mistranslation of the bible. in the earliest bibles you will read only certain kinds of animals were there and their purpose was to feed noahs familly because there was a big flood and they were floating and had to eat to survive. ok thank you
What “deliberate mistranslation of the Bible?
It has already been stated that there were fewer animals than is popularly believed, but the point of the Ark was to save those “Kinds” of animals that could not survive as a species out side the Ark.
The Bible does not make a list of animals. It simply says that a male and female of the “unclean” animals, and 7 pairs of the clean animals were in the Ark.
the ark story has 7 versions dating back to 3000bc there are similarities and differences ITS ONLY A STORY told by ancients describing natural events as if they were punishment from god/gods.
events that we did not have an explanation for were thought to be doing of god/gods. we thought the earth was flat,and stood still in the space and the sun,moon,and,planets revolved around it till was proven otherwise …..even the lightning that struck the roof of church was thought to be the satan attacking the house of god ..COME ON …
Actually there are far more than 7 Flood stories. Every ancient culture contains a Flood story.
No one who knows what they are talking about says that the Flood story is unique to the Judeo/Christian faiths. It is implicit in the book of Genisis that this version was written after the event. It was a belief that was common to all the cultures of the era. Moses wrote his account in the view of the justice and mercy of the One Creator/God.
It is also the report of the ancients that they were warned by God (or gods) before the event took place, giving those who believed the warning a chance to build the Ark. This is directly opposed to your idea that they claimed the providence of God (gods) after the event.
all 7 stories im talking about is the NOAH’S ARK it stretches from sumerians and babelonians all the way to muslims in around 600ad in the oldest version humans were created by one god and another or others wanted to destroy all. earlier versions are more imaginative and less logical but in time they turned it in to a more believable one.after all the bible changed so many times, and toura has few versions i believe kur-an is the only religious book to stayed the same and it does confirm that other three books were courapted by man and this was the last book to be sent and mohammed as the last of profits..i am not religious at all dont get me wrong im only looking for the truth and i dont think i will succeed but at least i will know that i gave it a go
On the matter of seeking the truth…
I sought the truth today with my dentist as to why I had, in the past 48 hours, I had become afflicted with such grave pain in my lower left jaw. He scheduled me in as an emergency, saw the severe pain I was in, but could see no evidence visually or (with the X-rays) of what was causing it. Wanting to alleviate my pain, he made an executive decision based not on observation, but on his “intuition”. He injected my nerve with Novocaine and proceeded to perform a triple-root canal on the suspicious molar.
Only after he began drilling, did he notice a thin, transverse fracture on the back of the tooth, which appears to go all the way down past the gum line. By acting on “faith” and then using science, he performed for me a most appreciated service and ended my suffering. If he had waited for visible “proof” of the problem, I would still be suffering the knee-buckling pain of 4 hours ago.
He then did not charge me for the service, because the question still remains as to whether he will ultimately be able to save the tooth. His merciful service performed today was to allow me to go forward in peace until our next appointment in 10 days.
He was puzzled as to what might have caused such a clean and straight shear of the tooth. I then told him that I had been punched in the jaw in a failed robbery attempt on June 1st, and that the area had been bothering me more little by little each week until this weekend when it became unbearable. I asked him if he could say that the manner in which the tooth was cracked was the result of this blow to my jaw. He replied by saying that it might have been, but could not say unequivocally, but that if it occurred as I described it, it would have been the right force and direction to have caused it.
Now with all the science and medicine we have, an expert like my beloved dentist cannot give me an ultimate truth as an answer. When he examined me, he could not even say what was right in front of him. Only after he acted on faith followed by his practical scientific and dental engineering methods did he accomplish his great thing.
Perhaps that is what the character Noah felt like back in the days of the legend of the flood. Perhaps that is how we feel today, always searching for proofs when they avoid and evade our detection, even when it is right under our noses. Perhaps if we do like my dentist, and lead with faith followed by solid, unbiased scientific methods, we might start uncovering the kernels of evidence that we all long so much to find throughout our magnificent universe.
It’s amazing what 3 hours in a dental chair can do for one’s thinking…. and faith.
Best of Life and Love,
Greg
Greg;
Sorry to hear about the robbery attempt and your injury…Am thankful to God you were not injured worse. Astute observation about faith and science.
Mario;
So what there are 7 versions of the story of Noah’s Ark. Considering how far back in history it happened, I am not surprised or dismayed. As I said, there are several hundred versions of the Flood story.
You have to remember that when the ancients wrote their version of the Flood Story and Noah’s Ark, they wrote it from their own viewpoint. Moses viewpoint was of One God who was Just and Merciful. Of how He warned mankind of the coming Flood, and that those who chose to believe Him built the Ark and lived.
The point being, is that these 7 versions (plus the several hundred others) are all about the same event. And, studies of our genetic heritage have revealed that mankind was almost wiped out early in his existence. Something very drastic happened, and the witnesses said it was a world wide flood.
Carl
Strange how so many things are on the verge to be discovered but never quite materialised. Sicentist, archologist and just ordinary people claim things are true false – fake or real.
But how intersting it is. Who are we to say that Naohs ark does not exsit? Did we live to witness that it did not?…..No, despite all evidence against it , Noahs ark and other claims eg. Atlants will continue to be discovered – whiether it exsits or not…..
I have to believe the devout, ancient Greeks sat around the fire with friends and family and pondered the mind of Zeus. I think it is human nature to want to understand the mind of god/God, wherever you are and whatever your cultural indoctrination. That deos seem to be a common thread in all of this, no?
Bible Berossus Greece Quran
Date 3d millennium BCE c.1640 BCE c.1100 BCE c.1000-500 BCE 278 BCE c.700 BCE? c.600 CE
Revolt ? lesser gods ? giants? monsters? giants –
Hero Ziusudra Atrahasis Ut-napištim Noah Xisuthrus Deucalion Nuh
Country Šuruppuk Šuruppak Šuruppak – Sippar Thessaly –
Destroyer Enlil Enlil Enlil YHWH Enlil Zeus Allah
Warning Vision Dream Indirect order Direct order Dream ? Direct order
Reason Noise? Noise ? Sin, giants ? Sin, giants Sin
Cause Stormflood Rain Stormflood Rain, fountains – Rain, waves “from the valley”
Savior Enki Enki Enki YHWH Enki Prometheus Allah
Period 7 days 7 days 7 days 150/40 days “quickly” 9 days ?
Birds ? ? raven, dove, swallow doves/raven “several” none –
Destination ? – Nimuš Ararat Gordyene Parnassus Al-Gudi
Fate Eternal life Eternal life Eternal life Three sons Eternal life Three grandsons –
sorry that didnt come out right
Mario;
I think what you are driving at is that there are both simalarities and differences between these 7 stories of Noah’s Ark.
Again I say, “So what?” They are all pointing to the same incident, with variations expected of the writing of these accounts being several hundred years apart, being written by different individuals with different perspectives on the same subject. This does not mean that the Flood was just a myth/story. It only means that different authors had a different take on it.
By the way, Enki of Summerian tradition is analogous to Satan in Christian/Judeo tradition. He opposed God, and in those accounts (falsely) took credit for saving mankind.
Point is, that your list does not prove that the Flood was just a made up story. I does indicate that something very big happened, and later authors explained it according to their own preceptions, as I have already stipulated.
Carl
i never said it was made up all im saying is in my own opinion some thing that can easily be explained today would have seem like a total disaster or a miracle due to humans knowledge than. did u know that human population never reached billion until 1900? there were around 150 million by YEAR 1AD. there never were that many of us in the first place so it doesnt need to be such a big disaster to wipe out almost all human race tho it would seem that way
here are the numbers 150mil 1AD,300mil 1350AD,600mil 1700AD,900mil 1800AD,1.6bil 1900AD,2.4bil 1950AD,5bil 1985AD,6.5bil 2007AD u do the maths since the story is around 6-8 thousand years old there were far less people than…
Sure there were far less people, but were they all congregated in a relatively small area, or were they spread out?
If they were all in one place, a relatively small disaster would wipe out most of them. If they were spread out (Africa, Europe, and Asia) and most of them were wiped out, then it had to be a very large scale disaster.
Also, many believe that the flooding of the Black Sea was Noah’s Flood. A relatively small scale event (compared to a world wide event).
However, at about the same time, Clovis Man and the Mega Fauna of North America also became extinct. These two things happening at the same time would indicate a very large scale event, or a close series of (relatively) smaller scale events.
hmmm..AMERICA??? when was america discovered?? if america was involved in any way the indians would know of it.tho bible says it was only noah ,his sons and their wives were on board all other man were killed.the story doesn’t make sence its a manifactured string of lies its a bit like illuminati there always been people who wanted to dominate the world it was the soul purppouse of all empires.people would believe every thing they were told after all we all need a god we all need a heaven, we all need a purpouse we all need to belive ……human nature
religious books were writen by man ,by man that was respected by others around them,but not directly of their own opinion of the way man lived but governing bodies instructions,.religion was nececery to keep man socialised with out one killing,robbing,rapping,other it was necesery for man kind to exist in harmony but every religion has failed to deliver this.
Just because it was not named America then, does not mean that it was not the same continent as what is now called North America.
How would the less ancient people we call Indians (or Native Americans) know anything about it? The Clovis people became extinct just as the story of Noah’s Ark states. Like you said, all were killed except Noah and his family. The modern people we call Native Americans migrated to the North American continent much later, as modern archeology clearly states.
Not to make this personal, but it is not making sense to you because you have a very limited knowlege of the subjects involved, and you are spouting nonsense because of it. Which is a real shame.
You also keep bringing up religion, when it is not religion we are debating. It is the legend that all cultures refer to, backed up by the genetic studies I have mentioned, and the simultaneous extinction events I have also mentioned, and the possiblility that the Ark has been found, or not. Please, quit trying to make a smoke screen.
well its clear that the ark was not found .
Only to those who have made up their own minds before the evidence is in. Let’s see what this Chinese group has discovered when they take an independant group back to the site of their claim.
It is quite possible that they did NOT find the Ark. Even if it did exist, there is a very good chance that by now it has been destroyed by glacial movement, earthquakes and rot.
However, with the other evidence (a small portion of which I have stated) it is not unreasonable to believe that the Flood did indeed happen.
Here in Illinois, we have a special connection to early man in North America. The anthropological evidence of the Clovis People is abundant here, as their burial mounds pepper the area around Cahokia (near the joining of the waters of the Missouri, Illinois and Mississippi Rivers). In school, this was a frequently taught bit of history discussed in class… since it kind-of gave Illinois a little bragging right for the first sign of complex community in the hemisphere. Early on, fresh drinking water and the navigational benefits of being located near the confluence of great waterways was considered ideal for a community’s location. The possibility exists, too, that if the ocean levels rose dramatically, the backwaters could have inundated these up-river, riverside communities and destroyed them, much in the same way as the redirection of the Mississippi River over and into into the Kaskaskia River bed inundated and destroyed Kaskaskia and Cahokia again in the late 1800’s. To this day, the part of Illinois containing Kaskaskia (the former capitol of the Illinois Republic and Illinois State) is now on the Missouri side of the Mississippi River and can only be accessed via bridges from Missouri. So it is not outside of reason that if a worldwide maritime catastrophe occurred, that these low lying areas would also have been affected… I’m not sayin’… just sayin’… food for thought.
… lastly I have to suggest that you agree with Carl on this point: It really does not matter what happened. Something really bad for humans had to have happened for so many disconnected cultures to share the same catastrophe story. If the story was from an origin time before the dispersion of man across the globe, I’d lean more toward a cultural fairy tale. But this was after we had moved across the planet and frankly, we were not talking to each other and were oblivious to each others’ existence.
So unless one can show how some alien folks in really fast ships were able to pass the word around… it does point to a big natural disaster.
Noah’s story might simply be how that particular culture dealt with the problem. Since it appears to have happened after the construction of the oldest pyramid in Egypt, man was already mentally evolved enough to understand complex mathematical relationships and calculations. We have a tendency to look at early man as idiots, when we should not. While the masses were probably as “ignorant” as the masses today (as a percentage), there are always geniuses amidst our ranks. In the old-days, they were looked at as prophets and gods, but really, there were just like the smart folks of today, whom we still revere, minus the deification.
One aspect of God recognition that is missed by both the believer and the atheist… is that in us there is “God”, for the human mind is the evolution of his creation and as such, has become God’s eyes and ears on earth. If creation had not intended for itself to evolve to a point that it could be self-aware and self-deterministic, then truly what a fluke that would be. I embrace the notion that God’s work is done though man, for better or worse, and whatever we do is cool with God. Since God is everywhere and God = Good, there is no evil, only missed-steps in the process of moving forward and temporary winners and losers in the process. in our language, losing = evil, winning = good. We are blind to the big picture.
I predict (in hindsight) that these sharp people of the past were mentally well enough equipped to see a risk, calculate its affect and forewarn their fellow man. But just like today, in 2008, 2009 when the smart fellows warned us of an impending economic collapse, the masses again chose to ignore the advice and went head-long into bankruptcy and foreclosure. If the modern-day colloquialism “being under water” for bankruptcy and foreclosure doesn’t get the point across, what does? Face it… collectively we are still a group of idiots no better than the folks back in Noah’s day. We have technology, but not wisdom, or even the lack of ego required to embrace the wisdom of the more seasoned. So I figure we still deserve the slings and arrows that we invite upon ourselves. When we finally wake up and see the universe for what it is and our appropriate role in it, things will get better. As long as we listen to business, political and religious leaders with their own hidden agenda, we deserve all the pain we endure.
There is something valuable in having a personal, incorruptible relationship with God that cannot be altered or influenced by the words of any man… be it in the bible, the pulpit, Washington DC, Wall Street, the Vatican or the adjacent bar stool.
Be your own person and the rest is easy….
Well said Greg..very wise…
live and let live….
true wisdom comes only from a relationship with God the Son and in that one of the personas of God, the Holy Spirit, causes our thoughts to alighn with those of the God the Father! All other so called wisdom is only foolishness. Greg, I read, or atleast tried to read what you wrote but it was hard to make sense of it because it constantly was contradicting something that was wrote before. True knowledge can only come as the Holy Spirit teaches us! This is why this world is lost, hurt, and dying. The lack of a relationship with Jesus Christ, the only giver and sustainer of life and the only way to life everlasting! In the beginning God made man and it was good, but He gave them free will to chose good or evil. Man’s heart has always been and always will be evil in and of it’s self apart from God. (because of the fall of man with Adam & Eve) Man choose evil and God was sorry he made Man. He sent a flood to start over again and choose Noah and his family because Noah walked with God. The arc that God told Noah to build was made in the way that God said to make it. It rained forty days and nights and then the water remained on the face of the earth for 150 days and then God caused the wind to blow and the waters to recead and the arc came to rest on the Turkish mount of Ararat (Genesis 8:4) which is the very same place that they found the remains of petrified cypress wood (the arc). If you doubt the truth in this then I encourage you to pick up a Bible and read John 3:16 and accept the Lord Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior so that you will beable to have the Holy Spirit as your teacher of truth. My friends, one day soon in the blink of an eye the clouds will part and Jesus will come to take with Him those who He knows aand that know Him. The Bible says that “just as the days of Noah, So shall be the return of Jesus”. Will you be ready??? Or will you miss out and have to suffer though great trials and hard times such as you have never seen? Or will you altogether cast this off and find that the moment you close your eyes on earth for the last time that you open them to a burning HELL???? My friends please hear me, time is short and I pray that the Lord will speak to you through this and that you will find true life in Him.
God bless,
William
love it! jesus is my everything! =)
william
there is no evidence of noah’s ark in turkey you missread i guess..
why burn in hell for eternity for such short life which we spend more than a third of it sleeping? is god that cruel? if so hell must be flooding with sinners and heaven would be eaqualy empty. religion makes it sound like a race between god and satan who will get most souls at the end of days. you should read something other than bible for a change and dont believe in every thing you read,every thing in this world is designed to control your actions and your toughts even ,dont fall for it.to be a good person no one needs a god or a religion, only their own judgment….
William, There has been a structure in Turkey that “may” actually be Noah’s ark…A Chineses team has found this, and are preparing to take a new team back to confirm or deny this artifact being the Ark. I would recomend waiting and seeing if there is in fact evidence, instead of proclaiming one way or another.
Sorry to be so blunt, but your rant only demonstrates a total lack of knowlege of what the Christian Faith is about, or what the Bible actually says. You do not have to believe it if you choose not to, but at least make your acceptance or rejection based on what it actually say’s, not a uniformed oppinion.
apologies William. It was late when I read the above post from eartling, and I messed up on the references. Sorry.
However, my points about people actually knowing what they are talking about when they bash someones belief stands. A true skeptic will find out what their opponents actually believe, a scoffer simply attacks what does not fint their personal paradigm.
Car;
I enjoyed what eartling said. I feel that people are so concerned with god and religion….I refuse to devote my short existence to something that is there to help me find meaning in my life. I am strong enough to find my own meaning and be happy with the fact that myself and species is not the center or purpose of existence.
I am glad you liked what he said. However, he bashed Christianity, the Bible, and religion with a load of nonsense that has nothing to do with any of the above.
It is impossible to have an intelligent discussion with such scoffers. I prefer an honest skeptic any day of the week.
If one wants to be an honest skeptic, then one should learn about the ideas they oppose, instead of bashing them with uninformed oppinion.
Besides, this blog is supposed to be about the validity of Noah’s Ark, not about whether faith gives me a center or purpose. So, do you want to discuss evidence and history, or just bash religion?
It is supposed to be all about the ark, but when people claim that the arch is real and give out “facts” about the story of Noah’s Ark from a book of Mythology (The Bible) I become skeptical of the source. So it is not “Bashing Religion” it is Questioning the use of the mythology. If this blog were about Evolution, and I used Darwin’s writings to back it up it would be the same thing people who use the bible to back up Noah’s ark are doing. I think the best way to find the truth is to look at it from an outside perspective, and outside source. Use multiple perspectives and see what you come up with. Not just the one(s) that works for you. I can see how the Bible says it happened. But that is no different then looking at Egyptian book of the the dead and saying “I know that we go to an afterlife because the religious scripture tells me so”…. I mean think about it.
noah;s ark is a religious story,there for it has every thing to do with it,if you think and search hard enough you will see that every thing is connected to one other ,sorry carl ,mate its those who i oppose that let religion blind them from seeing the rest of the world in universe human life is next to nothing we over value our self just cause we are aware of our existance there is far more to it than we can explain or understand, noah’s ark might have existed,might have not,all i know is that if all the clouds rained down earth and all polar ice caps had melted the water levels would not reach to the place they claimed that the ark was found ,i know much more than you think i do ,i might lack the ability to express my self but thats my own falt
nice one lisa…
thinking is not for all man most of us choose to be directed in a direction rather than looking for our own way.
I don’t know what the purpose of religion is because I haven’t got it. What I have is a relationship with a Living God! The very same God that formed you in you mother’s womb and the very same God that every knee will bow to and every tounge confess to. If you use the Bible as a history book you will see that it matches to the same timeline as everyother refrence point from all other cultures (not just Jewish (so called) mythology). The Bible speeks of a Flood and an Arc and so does the Quran and so do ancient egyptian scrolls. So, even if you dispute the Bible then do you also dispute other ancient texts thAt refrence a flood and the Arc?
My pourpose is not to force ppl to belive like i do. You each have a God given ability to choose whom you will serve. But unless you were alive and know that there was no flood you can not say that there was not. If you draw from the texts that exist you will see the parallels in them about not only the flood but several other events as well. (please understand I am an educated person and know much about several cultures and faith systems)
Before you judge me and others for our faith please understand that we do not judge you. That is not our job. The judgement that I juge with will be the same that I am judged by. My only hearts cry is that each of you will never find religion, but a relationship with the only true livimg God by faith in Jesus, who called sinners his friends, and loves you so much and so desires a relatonship with you that he hung on a cross and died for you and I, so that you and I could be with him for all time.
Ok, Lisa, then where have I used the Bible as a proof of Noah’s Ark? I have listed genetic studies, have mentioned the 250 extra Biblical writings about the Flood, and the Chinese expidition that is planning on going back with an independant team to confirm or deny their findings. I have also mentioned the Black Sea event, the extinction of Clovis man (with the extinction of the mega fauna of ancient N.America).
You and eartling have brought religion into the discussion, not me. And you both do so bashing it, and not even stating clearly what these have to say, just your own unknowing oppinion of it without any understanding of the issues involved.
eartling, there are over 250 extra Biblical accounts of a world wide flood. There are several instances of continent wide extinctions that happened at about the same time. Or very genes tell us that at some point in our ancient past mankind was almost wiped out. If you take the Bible out of the account completely, you still come up with the fact that those who survived the catastrophy claimed it was a world wide flood, and that they were warned about it by God/gods before it happened.
Yet, for the most part you continue to bash religion instead of discussing the facts and evidence.
However, in this last post you finally did come up with a valid objection to the common conception of the Flood. Although I do believe in said world wide flood, I agree with you that there is not enough moisture in the air, or ice in the glaciers to account for such a flood. But, no one has said that the Flood was caused by rain or melting glaciers.
Point in case……. at some point all of life on earth was wiped out….only those on an “arc” lived…… no matter what earling or lisa belive about God they can not deny that. All cultures agree on that. One day it will all be reviled to us….. but not in this life.
You have a great deal of knowledge carl…. great job giving such to the point factual answers while not bashing ppls faith!!!!
ones on the ark were noah and his family there were no other witnesses, when it comes to ancient texts dont even get me started,thousands of them were destroyed by church,therefor we dont have any way of finding out of their contents. noahs ark is a story that came way before jesus and moses its origins are from babylonians, story in toura and bible and kuran are the modified versions of it.and there are many more before them , i was not there to see that it did not happen were you there to see that it did????you chose to belive a story told over 10 thousand years ago its not my falt, and william jesus is not god, this is the main reason that kuran was written, i recommend that you read it and do read the toura too, not that it will make any difference to you but there might be a tinny chance that you understand what im talking about…
the clovis wiped out megafouna not a disaster and most of south-north american civilisations became extinct or near extinction after iteracting with european man,thousands died from very basic illnesses passed on to them through these man
clovis/fauna extinctin pre-dates european pathogen incursion by over 1,000 years. – please see entry from last month…
Oh, and let’s all take a deep breath and not type faster than we can feel…
earthling, try this site about clovis man. Was also featured on the Discovery channel.
By the way, no one said that the Flood story originated with Moses (or Jesus for that matter). It is well acknowleged that there are records from previous civiliations like the Epic of Gilgemesh. Like I said, there are at least 250 different flood stories, from all cultures.
You seem to be missing my major point. Even without the use of the Bible (which I do believe) a very good case can be made for the Flood event So quit trying to bash my Faith, which I am NOT using to make my case. Caan you use reason?
oops, I forgot to leave the link;
http://bitchlikeageologist.com/2009/01/07/its-science-microscopic-diamonds-provide-evidence-for-clovis-comet-collision/
By the way, you got one more thing wrong. The Quran was not written because Jesus was not God, but because Mohamed believed Jesus was not God. This is a big difference.
Religion Offends me. Noah’s ark is a Religious myth, To say the story including all animals in pairs on a large boat were needed because God Flooded the entire world is true, is to say the religion behind it is true. The story comes from the biblical text.
Also, Back in those times people did not have any clue or idea of how large the world is. So when a major flood happened in their area (Not all over the planet) it was perceived to be the entire world. People back in those days told stories and wrote, in poetic forms, I.E. Not to be taken every world literally.
Anyways I’m not trying to Bash religion, but my perspective is that it is Offensive because so many people have died and fought each other over the history of human kind because of it.
Good Day!
Religion Offends me. Noah’s ark is a Religious myth, To say the story including all animals in pairs on a large boat were needed because God Flooded the entire world is true, is to say the religion behind it is true. The story comes from the biblical text.
Also, Back in those times people did not have any clue or idea of how large the world is. So when a major flood happened in their area (Not all over the planet) it was perceived to be the entire world. People back in those days told stories and wrote, in poetic forms, I.E. Not to be taken every world literally.
Anyways I’m not trying to Bash religion, but my perspective is that it is Offensive because so many people have died and fought each other over the history of human kind because of it.
Good Day!
Lisa, the Bible is a historical document given by our Creator. It is not a religious book. It is unique, one of a kind.
Evolution is a religious belief that teaches that early humans could not reliably record history or communicate literal, accurate, information and were “primitive” and had no clue about the true size of the world.
Reality is that early humans used far more of their brain capacity than we do today (in general) and had a better physical environment to work with and knew more than most people today and had technology. Unfortunately, too many of them decided to skip the truth and to make up religions and their own ideas and to do horrible things to each other and to the planet. And we have been going downhill ever since.
I am sorry that it’s like that. I am sorry that you feel you have only a limited time for existence; your Creator offers you an eternity of joy.
Mars Star,
So if people of the ancient past were so intelligent then how is there not extensive records of their existance? (And when I say Extensive I mean not the Bible) Also, seriously you implied that people who lived back then were intellectual enough to understand and know the size of the planet…..So why was it that these people believed for so long that the planet was flat?
Also, on another note I find it highly offensive when I am told that I have a creator and he is “offering” me “eternal joy”
I understand your perspective on this and if this view of life makes you happy that is fine with me. But please do not tell me that I am missing out on anything. I do not need to hear that you or anyone should be or is sorry for me for not believing. I have a great and happy life without the concept of a god within it.
Lisa;
As I have repeatedly stated, all cultures have a flood story. Our genetics confirm that at some time in our early history mankind almost became extinct. There are extinction events on several continents at about the same time. They may (possibly) have found the actual Ark, and are going back to confirm or deny this.
And yet, you can not discuss the “evidence” because you say, “Religion offends me'”
Do you realize that you just admitted that you are not a skeptic, but a scoffer? And a bigot as well? That you are saying, and demonstrating, that you can not hold an inteligent conversation on a subject because of your own bias?
I hope that the above is not actually true, but if it is not true, then stop bashing what you do not understand and start holding an inteligent discussion. Can you?
Religion offends you, but your ignorant rants about religion and lack of an inteligent discussion about the evidence offends me.
Carl,
First off my lst comment was not addressed to you. Second, Yes you have brought up things such as floods being talked about all over the world etc. But what it sounds like you are saying is that because so many people around the world say there was a massive flood that it proves Noah’s ark is true. And honestly, like I said in my last post addressed to MARS STAR is that people back in those times had no real conception of how large the planet really was. And when there area recieved a massive rainstorm like a hurricane (Like when new orleans was flooded etc.) they back in their time would most like likely tell and talk about it as if it were a world wide event. They would write or tell of it like “it covered over all the lands”. Their writing(s) should not be taken literally because that is not how they were written. Same as the Noah’s Ark story, it is a myth, and mythology should not be taken literally.
Carl,
First off my last comment was not addressed to you. Second, Yes you have brought up things such as floods being talked about all over the world etc. But what it sounds like you are saying is that because so many people around the world say there was a massive flood that it proves Noah’s ark is true. And honestly, like I said in my last post addressed to MARS STAR is that people back in those times had no real conception of how large the planet really is. And when there area received a massive rainstorm like a hurricane (Like when new Orleans was flooded etc.) they, back in their time would most likely tell and talk about it as if it were a world wide event. They would write or tell of it like “it covered over all the lands”. Their writing(s) should not be taken literally. All of the lands to them refers to all they can see. Same as the Noah’s Ark story, it is a myth, and mythology should not be taken literally. What happened with the Christian and biblical views is quite sad actually. Did you know Christianity came from Paganism??? Did you know that the bible was not always taken literally word for word? This story of Noah’s ark does not make sense, i know this has been highly debated and I stayed out of this part of the debate because there is no debating with people who think mythology is a literal historical textbook, but animals would not have all come and gotten on the boat, no way. They would not have survived, and yet again if only Noah and his family lived then we are all incestuously related which I think is against the religious views in the bible…as are every animal, which makes no sense either as we know from the Egyptians and genetics because when people begin have children with their family members the genetic stream in their body (their DNA) becomes weak and abnormalities and weaknesses occur. So if we are all from adam and eve and the noah and his family we would have died a long time ago from disease and mutations caused by incestuous breeding.
And yes I say religion is offensive and people telling me that I need to be saved is offensive. I feel that religion is something that causes hate amongst people who share different beliefs (look at some of the first posts on this website) and I feel it is oppressive for people to tell me that I need something, or that I am lacking something, or that I am un whole or incomplete without what they tell me I need. That is a load of bull..Because I do not feel unhappy and I don’t need a bunch of people trying to convince me that I am not…so yes I have a little bought against religion especially Christianity. But due to how things have been going on on this blog from the beginning and some of the things people have said especially early on, I felt it was necessary to show people that yes they can think and say it is offensive or whatnot that other people are “bashing their religion” but at the same time when a bunch of religious people start preaching on here saying God bless you to people that don’t ask for it or saying things like this person…I hope God saves them etc. that is HIGHLY Offensive to me and I felt something needed to be said about it.
Sorry didn’t know about that first part of my comment post…hope you skipped to the completed one.
Lisa, you said;
“Did you know Christianity came from paganizm?”
This is a lie that focuses on similarities between some pagan religions like the myth of Mithra and Zarathrusta, but completely ignor the historically established fact that Christianity came from 12 men who were Jews, and who followed the man Jesus of Nazareth (who was also a Jew), and that they believed him to be Messiah.
That you repeat this lie is proof that you have no understanding of the subject. You do not have to accept Christianity, but your proclamations are based on ignorance, not fact….So why don’t you just leave such out of the discussion?
Now, as to the objections you raised in your last post;
I never said that all of the 250 + flood stories proves Noah’s Ark. I presented this fact as 1 piece of evidence among many.
If such a catastrophy occured, and all of mankind were descended from such a small population, one would expect such a universal legend, since they would tell their descendants. Your idea that many local floods around the world caused such a universal legend lacks any support. The legends would not be so close together to begin with. Not only that, but the survivors would only need to travel a small distance to find non-flooded land, and other survivors.
Yes, according to the Law of Moses, which was written at least 2000 years later, incest is against what the Bible teaches. However, these people did not have access to Moses teaching then, so the point is irrelevant.
Now as to such relations being harmful to the race, this is true. However, you are assuming that these ancients were either physically equal to or somewhat less than modern man. You have no way to know this. Another legend among many cultures is that the ancients lived much longer than they do now. If this is true, then you have just correctly stated was the result of the small population growing again, and the legends agree with you.
In a previous post you had rebutted a statement of one who stated that ancient mankind was culterally, and technologically superior to later peoples. Your rebuttle stated that if this is the case, then where are the records of it, or the evidence of it (sorry, I paraphrased).
My answer is this. What if such a catastrophe happened today. Some type of flood that affected the whole earth. After 4 to 6 thousand years later, what would be left of our civilization? Answer, nothing. Same as that ancient civilazation.
Now, a piece of evidence you have completely ignored. There are now 3 genetic studies whose conclusion was that early humankind was almost wiped out. If you want to know about what I am talking about, please look up these two links;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=humans-might-have-faced-extinction
A third study (not genetic) was featured on the Discovery Chanel recently. The issue, “Comet Catastrophe”. This scientist lists much of the evidence I am talking about, and more. He believes that a comet strike in the Indian Ocean caused the cataclysm that later became know as the Great Flood, by all cultures.
No, I am not saying that these studies confirm Noah’s flood. What they do is establish that at some point in our early history there was a near extinction level event. All of the 250 legends also claim there was one, and they claim it was a flood.
I would just like to say to the ones whom don’t believe that the animals would all survive on the arc, well when God ( the creator of the heavens and the earth, and all things) says something shall happen then it does. If all animals were made by God, then don’t you think He can control what they do and how they function. True no one knows exactly how the plan was laid out, its something called faith. If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, Jesus said you could say to that mulberry tree go over there on that hill and it shall move. The Bible is all truth not one word in it is a lie. I don’t really understand all the religon stuff I do know that God gave us His son to cover our sin and His name is Jesus Christ and who shall believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. When a saved individual tells you God Bless you or I pray for you or something that you say offends you? I don’t get it, because we care about all man kind and want to save everyone we can from the depths of HELL! I have listened to testimony’s of now pastors whom died when they were not saves and they went to that awful place. If you were to die today were do you think your soul will go? If you do not know Jesus. God destroyed the earth once because of the people in it were awlful, did bad things, yes worse then times right now. We have not seen the worst yet. It will come, then Jesus will come with the angel that will sound the trumpet, if you do not have the Holy Spirit that comes from God, then you want here it, it will be to late. Until Jesus and the saved come back to reign over the world for 1000 years. I myself love all people and want for them to know Jesus. Jesus went to the upper room had the last supper with His disciples, was arrested by His will (for you and me and everyone that will ask Him in).He underwent great emotional stress from being abandoned by friends, the thought of humiliation and a cruel death by crucifixion, that He produced bloodied beads of sweat. This is called hemathidrosis where the veins and skin become tender from anguish that they break, mixing the blood with sweat.
The flagrum, a short whip with small balls of lead tied near the ends of each thong, “is brought down with full force again and again across Jesus’s shoulders, back, and legs. At first, the heavy thongs cut through the skin only.” The whip tears into the deep skeletal muscles to produce ribbons of bleeding flesh.
At the mocking of Jesus, a crown of thorns was driven into his scalp, causing more bleeding, the scalp being among the most veined parts of the human body.
They returned his robe, only to tear it off again, again opening the wounds whose dried blood has adhered to the cloth.
Finally, the journey to the Calvary begins. The heavy the crossbar weighing 34 to 57 kg weight is put across his nape and shoulders. Today, men can swing sacks of rice weighing 50 kilos on their backs. But remember that Jesus was already very weak, had lost a great amount of blood, was in excruciating pain, and was under emotional strain.
Iron spikes measuring 5 t o 7 inches are driven through Jesus’ wrist’s. The feet are nailed next, and Jesus is now crucified. The nailed hands carry the weight of Jesus’s whole body and tear at the wounds. Meanwhile, the stimulation of the nerves in feet is also causing Jesus much pain.
The mere act of breathing has never been so agonizing for a single human being. Due to the way the of crucifixion. After “hours of this pain, cycles of twisting, joint-rendering cramps,” Jesus slips into unconsciousness due to asphysxia, a lack of oxygen in the body usually caused by interruption of breathing. The piercing of the spear on his side, which likely ruptured his lungs and heart, was done to ensure death… His blood spilled out for people before they are even born. Jesus was an innocent man, the people wanted to free a murderer and turn over Jesus. Of course people mocked Him and said if you are the Son of God come down, but that moment in time was His reason for being on earth. He is coming!
Carl;
this is a part from kuran
30. He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
31. “And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
32. “(He hath made me) kind to my mother, and not overbearing or unblest;
33. “So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)”!
34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, “Be”, and it is.
36. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.
37. But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the Unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of an awful Day!
38. How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear before Us! but the unjust today are in error manifest!
39. But warn them of the Day of Distress, when the matter will be determined: for (behold,) they are negligent and they do not believe!
40. It is We Who will inherit the earth, and all beings thereon: to Us will they all be returned.
read the kuran before you make claims of its content or reason…
Earthling;
So you are saying I am correct, that Mohamed did not believe in the deity of Jesus so he wrote it that way in the Koran?
What has this to do with the validity of Noah’s Flood? Why do you keep attacking my Faith when I am not trying to push it, but am only trying to discuss the science and history of said Flood?
If you want to use proof texts from the Islamic Scriptures, then deal with the fact that they also teach of the FLood and the Ark.
To everyone;
Has anyone noticed that I have yet to use the Bible as a proof text for Noah’s Flood?
I make no apology for believing the Bible. However, in this instance I have not used it (except to correct some things some have said about it).
The reason for this is simple. There is so much evidence for the Great Flood that I do not have to rely on it to support my belief in the Flood.
So, please stop attacking my Faith to make your points. If you have objections to what the Bible say’s about the Flood, I have no fear of being able to answer those questions. But, I would like us to examine all of the evidence without attacks.
Carl
you are completely missing the point CARL
there are storys of dragons from all over the world but that doesnt make them true,since all human race came from noahs family(supposedly) all caltures have the same root..in toura it says that noah had 3 sons and each one had many sons after the flood and they populated earth,how about women???who did they have their SONs with???every time time the story was told it was tempered with adjusting it to its time…they talk about giants and more than 1 god in earlier versions and different reasons for the flood,therefor a different conclusion…religion is a way of life,which was meant to keep order and peace between humans but it has failed time and time again,eternal life is every mans wish,if you offer them this and there will be many to believe,there are examples of this today which i’m sure you know.
its not only the the bible many ancient text contain a flood story as you said cause of that i find it difficult to believe any of it. earlier man had very little knowledge and many things might have been missinterputed,how ever thousands of texts were destroyed by religious authorities,may be they contained stuff that would disprove the flood story who knows i am angry with religion because of that, it seems to me like they destroyed every thing that did not suit them,Inca had extencive records which many are still sitting at museums and we dont know what they say,pyramids are a different mistery and so on.. there are so many questions that has not been answered or i shall say were answered but the answers are clearly wrong,so that raises a bigger question of them all ARE WE BEING TOLD OF THE TRUTH OR WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR???
i know i offended you and many others but in todays world biggest sins are committed in the name of religion im not going to start giving examples coz there are too many..onelast thing i’d like to appolagise for offending you it doesn’t matter to me what you’r religion is as long as you live you’r life with out harming others
earthling;
Thank you for your conciliatory tone. It means a lot.
You are somewhat correct that there are those who have done great evil in the name of religion/God. However, it is not religion/God who is doing the evil, but evil people who “bastardize” good things to justify their evil deeds. And, yes, such people have been in the Church and have done great evil.
But, please get this straight. Such evil people have used every philosophy under the sun to falsely justify their evil deeds, including atheism. The Communists (whose creed is atheism) have killed hundreds of millions of people in 50 years of this century.
So please, do not blame religion. It is simply evil men who will currupt anything to force their own way. We have had this kind since time began, and will have them to the end. Oppose these evil people, not those who share the philosophy/religion that these people abuse.
Carl
earthling;
No, I am not missing your point. I simply disagree with it.
Also, I am trying to focus on evidence (of which the unversality of the Great Flood is only one peice), instead of the Bible. I can do this because there is so much extra-Biblical evidence for the Flood.
So, since I am not using the Bible (not rejecting it either) let us together focus on the evidence and leave your feelings about religion and the Bible out of it.
Now, you did make an objection about the Biblical account. It was about Noah’s sons and grandsons. They were listed, but “how about the women, who did they have their sons with.
Simply put, if only those people who were on the Ark were left, then they had to have daughters as well for the sons to marry. Just because the ancients and the Jews focused on the men does not mean that the women did not exist. In their culture that is how they recorded geneologies, through the men.
Carl
There is no Real Evidence that there was a World Wide Flood. Yes many cultures around the same time maybe (and if it was that comet thing you mentioned then it makes even more sense that there were multiple different floods all over the world, but not a flood that covered the entire planet) have recorded a Big flood. But the point you are missing from what I am saying is that The stories and writings from the ancient past SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY BECAUSE THE WAY THEY TOLD STORIES WAS NOT MEANT TO BE LITERAL BUT POETIC. So the fact that many different cultures recognize a giant flood has nothing to do with the 1 story of Noah’s Ark because Noah’s Ark is ONE OF THE 250 STORIES. I could say the Noah’s Ark Myth of the flood proves the flood that such and such culture says happened. That is all I see you doing with this so called evidence.
Also to correct peoples account of historical data with a religious text book is not an accurate way to show you are working from multiple perspectives and no the perspective you were made to believe is true.
Earthling, I absolutely agree with what you brought up in your last post. :)
Also, I am not trying to tell anyone what to believe and I know as a person I come off aggressive sometimes. But I hope no one takes this personally I am only debating the topics here not the people.
*and Not the perspective not .. no the perspective*
earthling;
In your post you said, “…there are stories of dragons from all over the world, but that does not make them true…”
Just for fun, I want to challenge that statement. I assume you do not believe in dragons.
Yes, you are correct, there are stories of dragons from all over the world. What makes you think they never did exist?
First off, there is an animal today that we call a dragon. The Komodo Dragon of the Southern Pacific. This is a man killer too.
Secondly, taking the “dragons advocate” position, there probably was some kind of animal that the ancients called “dragons” (or the verbal equivalent). Just because we do not know what animals they meant, does not mean they did not exist. Just because we have not yet found an animal that we would call dragons, does not meant they did not exist either. Might be we just have not found it yet.
Thirdly, we may actually have found the fossil remains of an animal that the ancients called dragons. We just have not realized that this is what they are talking about.
Now, just for a little more fun, the modern idea of “dragons” is of a flying, fire breathing reptile. Could such an animal have actually existed?
1. When we think of flying animals we generally think of birds. However, many types of animals have learned how to fly. Many insects can fly. Some mamals can fly (the bat and the flying squiral). There are snakes that can glide from tree to tree by the way the wiggle and hold their bodies. There are some species of fish that can glide for surprizing distances after jumping out of the water. The dinosaurs had the dactyls. So it is not out of the raalm of possibility that some reptile may have once had the power of flight.
2. How about the fire breathing part. One of the gases that is a by-product of life is methane. I have a friend who used to take a bic lighter, bend over and place this next to his butt, and light the effects of his flatuance. He never burned his clothing or his skin.
Now if an animal belched, and had a way to ignite the gas, it would appear that it was breathing fire. How could it ignite the gas, you ask? How about using electricity?
Some animals generate considerable electric charge. The electric eel is famous for generating enough of a charge that it can stun it’s prey or enemies. It is very possible that other animals may have been able to generate a spark. Just have not found it yet, or recognized it for what it is (fossil bones only tell us so much).
So, have dragons ever existed? They do now. Could they have flown and breathed fire. Maybe. I don’t know, and neither does anyone else.
So, just because the ancients made a claim does not mean it is not true either.
Carl
Lisa;
First off, yes the ancients did use what we call poetry to tell their stories. But many of these stories were their histories, and they took them seriously indeed. Your idea that they did not take them literally is unfounded,
Secondly, maybe you do not want to accept it, but the universality of the Great Flood Legend is strong evidence that something happened that all ancient cultures describe. These legends do have some differences (based on who is telling the story) but they have many more similarities.
Thirdly, I said this was evidence, not proof. Do you know the difference?
Fourthly, I have mentioned several other lines of evidence which you completely ignor.
Just because you refuse to acknowlege evidence does not mean there is no evidence.
Carl
lol carl
i know of komodo dragon of komodo islands,they can kill a man thats true too (their hmmm im not sure how to spell the word so im just going to say the fluid in their mouth is highly poissinous due to their diet).they are no match to the dragons in the legends.how ever there is an animal that lives in dark caves in underground lakes that it’s appearance resembles to the dragons very much except for one thing, their size they are not bigger than 30-35cm long may be a few cm’s longer .i once again will relate it to stories over told by people .their is a type of squriel that glides but it certenly does not fly,basicaly it can not take off from ground but does cover great distances from tree to tree or tree to ground,flying fish! i think everyone knows about those they glide too like you said and there are snakes which can do almost the same,dinosaurs are my biggest friends its amazing that none of the religious books mention them as if they never existed (no offence).we have found fossils of dinosaurs that lived millions of years before us but not one dragon fossil that were supposed to have lived among people..well this still doesnt prove any thing …
i actually found a dragon check this site
http://www.oneinchpunch.net/2007/06/30/real-dragon-fossils-on-display-in-china/
to RICK
hey there mate, we are off the subject by a million miles i hope you dont mind, i thought you were shutting down the site i hope i got it wrong,cause i really like it,its very interesting to debate even tho im not good at it,anyway just wanted to say thanks for ignoring our ignorance of the subjects
just remembered something ..
I’m from Cyprus and Cyprus sank at least 3 times in the past completely went under water.not sure how long it lasted every time but its more than 12-13 thousand years ago i know that cause the oldest pottery discovered in the world came from there dating back to 10,000bc.noah’s flood would have swallowed it big time,
“Atlantis” is a unique word, a translation from the Egyptian word Keftiu into Greek. Keftiu itself was a translation of an original Atlantean word – thus said Plato, the person who wrote about Atlantis. As it is a unique name, and a unique account, the story of identifying Atlantis is difficult – had it been easy, the mystery would have been solved long ago.
When Plato wrote his Timaeus and Critias, he would probably never have imagined that Atlantis would create a controversy in the following millennia. The controversy started almost immediately after he had written about it and apart from medieval times, has captured the imagination of western civilisation. And even though the civilisation is often believed to be located in the Atlantic Ocean, numerous locations have been proposed, from America to the Middle East. Equally, the inhabitants of the island have been classified as gods, extra-terrestrial beings or a special racial type. Confronted with so many possibilities, few are able to make sense of it all.
One of the many researchers who claim to have located Atlantis is the American researcher Robert Sarmast. Though his story may not be as spectacular as some of the other theories, it does have the advantage that his possibility is likely… and thus might be the key that unlocks the problem.
One of the most remarkable facts about the disappearance of Atlantis is that the “continent” slowly sank. It was the end result of a series of disasters, which include earthquakes. According to Sarmast, this is a clue in determining the location; few locations in the world can meet these specific demands… and an island in the Atlantic Ocean does not meet the criteria.
Briefly, Sarmast has identified the Mediterranean Sea as the location for Atlantis, specifically the area immediately to the southeast of Cyprus, currently buried underneath 1500 metres – about a mile – of water. It is known that the Mediterranean has not always been a sea – at least not as large as its current size. At least three times, earthquakes and the continental drift have closed the Street of Gibraltar. As a consequence, water began to evaporate, turning the sea into land. This is now an accepted scientific fact, testified by various geological remains, including the visible routes of the Nile, continuing its course much further. Graham Hancock is one of the authors who has gone in search of evidence that buildings and cart ruts around the island of Malta are now buried underneath the water’s surface; evidence that even relatively recently – 5000 years ago – the water level seems to have been lower than today.
Sarmast argues that approximately 10,000 years ago, the Street was closed off, which resulted in one of the biggest waterfalls the world has ever seen: a hundred times bigger than Victoria Falls. But when earthquakes reopened the corridor, millions of tons of water slow entered the Mediterranean, whereby land began to “sink” underneath the water. And Sarmast believes that Atlantis was lost in this catastrophe.
undefinedAtlantis has a number of characteristics, whereby Sarmast has been able to confirm that they apply to Cyprus. The presence of elephants and copper are two important characteristics, which fit within his hypothesis. Copper was so abundant in Cyprus that the island was actually named after the metal.
But what about the so-called “Pillars of Hercules”, where Atlantis was said to be located beyond? Criticism against the identification of the Pillars as Gibraltar predates Sarmast; Eberhard Zangger was one of those who argued that various locations around the Mediterranean Sea carried that description. Gibraltar should not be considered the sole candidate for that title.
But could Atlantis be an island, if the Mediterranean Sea was not a sea? Even though most of the sea was turned into land, the rivers still emptied inside the area… and some ocean must always have remained at the bottom, unless the period in which the Mediterranean was cut off from the Atlantic Ocean was extremely long.
It is a fact that the shores of the Mediterranean Sea show signs of the origins of civilisation, whereby the eastern shores has many remains that are dated to 8000 BC – relatively shortly after the sinking of Atlantis, which the ancient Egyptians had dated to approximately 9500 BC. undefinedIt thus seems likely that that region indeed had an unknown civilisation… and if Atlantis was located in the Atlantic Ocean, would we not have seen those signs in the western Mediterranean, or even on the western shores of the Atlantic Ocean, along Spain and Morocco?
Sarmast adds that Cyprus still has a yearly Festival of the Flood, whose origin has been lost in the mists of time. Is it a remembrance of the catastrophe? The festival is even named Kataklysmos and even though it is now celebrated at Pentecost, it is clear that this was an old festival that the Church Christianised.
It is not the only potential link with Atlantis. The highest mountain on the island is now almost two kilometres above sea level, and is named Olympos. Is this the original Olympos, the sacred mountain of the Greek gods?
Cyprus is also recognized as the centre of the cult of Venus, the Mother Goddess, who many historians have identified as the central object of worship in primitive societies. Researchers have shown that between roughly 20,000 and 5000 BC, a cult of the Mother Goddess existed around the eastern shores of the Mediterranean Sea. The island also has the village of Yeroskipou, a name derived from “Hiero Skepos”, or “Holy Gardens”. The gardens were dedicated to Aphrodite/Venus and could well be identical to “Paradise” and the Garden of Eden. The name “paradise” actually refers to a garden, enclosed by a wall and this is precisely what these gardens were: sacred territories, walled off from the world. Inside was a veritable paradise, with springs, flowers and trees, whereby the worshippers of the goddess practiced free sex in worship of the goddess of love.
Sarmast touches upon, but does not extensively discuss, the possibility that the demise of Atlantis may be connected with the story of Noah and the Flood. It is clear that a catastrophe of this sort – the filling of the Mediterranean basin – and the Ark of Noah beginning to float on water, until it finally reaches land, are very similar. Indeed, once the waters had risen to a new level, the world had been transformed and the evils of the old world had been washed away. And it is clear that the evil was also in Atlantis, as the disaster that befell it, has been identified as God washing the slate clean of the evil that the civilisation had begun to wreak upon its neighbours.
Whether it was God or a natural disaster, it is clear that the refilling of the basin must have created a massive reaction – panic – with the people that lived inside it. undefinedSome must have been confronted with a rising sea-level, some may even have experienced a tsunami. Many must have died. Atlantis had a further problem, in the sense that it was a plain, located next to the sea. If it had been a mountain civilisation, they may have survived, or had more time. Amongst all the victims that the disaster must have made, a civilisation along the shores must have been its major victim. And the Egyptians remembered them…
As such, perhaps we need to look upon Noah as the eccentric scientist, who observed the possibilities of the upcoming disaster and took his precautions. As such, he was well equipped to face the disaster – and succeed in his survival… perhaps he was one of the few who did…
Sarmast hypothesis remains for the moment that. But he is in the process of mapping the area. Even though the Mediterranean Sea is well-known, its surface is not. Sarmast is equally hopeful that traces of the civilisation have survived, despite being buried under a mile of water. And some of the maps he and his team of researchers have been able to get from the area in question do seem to indicate that Atlantis may indeed be located there. Though much more work is required, at least, this possibility is more hopeful than so many of the alternatives…
hope you enjoyed that i got it from a site http://www.philipcoppens.com/atlantis.html
earthling;
Really enjoyed it. Good research.
I have long suspected that the story of Atlantis might be a version of Noah’s Ark. That is, 2 stories telling of the same incident, but from 2 different perspectives. As the other 248 stories do.
A term used to describe what your link is talking about is “Mega Flood”. The filling of the Mediteranian would be a Mega Flood.
Bob Ballard (of the Woodshole Oceanographic Institute) believes that the flooding of the Black Sea may be Noah’s Flood. Another Mega Flood at about the same time. Here is a link to his website;
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/ax/frame.html
After the last Ice Age, about the same time as these Mega Floods, there was a sharp dip in the temperatures that resulted in a mini ice age. It is believed that a glacial lakes ice dam broke, and poured such a large quantity of fresh water into the North Atlantic that it interupted the “global heat conveyor belt” that transfers heat from the tropics to the North Atlantic. Another mega flood.
Here is a link about some more mega Floods;
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/megaflood/
Also remember the mega fauna and Clovis Man becoming extinct about the time all of this is going on. (OK, I realize that we are talking about a time frame of 15000 years to 7000 years ago, but these times are estimates)
Also, remember the 2 genetic studies I have mentioned which indicate that early mankind almost became extinct. And, although the time estimates for these events are 80,000 years and 1,000,000 years let us remember that this genetic science is in it’s infancy. The time estimates are only 1 order of magnitude different for the one study, and 2 orders for the other. When the science is refined, we may get a totally different date.
The point is that something drastic happened. It was at least anthropologically universal, and it might have even been geographically universal.
Best wishes
Carl
By the way, I liked the link to the dragon fossil. Sure does look like some of the ancient depictions of dragons.
Carl
in my oppinion,it is not impossible. you just believe in god.when you believe automatically you’re in the right way
well you are suppose to give your life to jesus by praying and worshipping him and spending time wif him doesnt matter how long it iz, just give your life to jesus by praying and den you are in the right path. ;)
What you guys are saying how religion works. People can believe what ever the wish, and it makes it real to them. But the conflict comes when people put so much of their life into one thing and then another form of religion with people who believe in something different comes along and challenges what a person has dedicated their entire life to. It upsets people to hear that they are living in a fantasy world. But, honestly that is what is going on. And people are harming others over the differences in their beliefs because they want to feel secure in the decision to give their life to something they can not prove. And to hear you wasted your life, and what you believe to be true is in fact not, upsets/pisses a person off.
What you guys are saying how religion works. People can believe what ever the wish, and it makes it real to them. But the conflict comes when people put so much of their life into one thing and then another form of religion with people who believe in something different comes along and challenges what a person has dedicated their entire life to. It upsets people to hear
that they are living in a fantasy world. But, honestly that is what is going on. And people are harming others over the differences in their beliefs because they want to feel secure in the decision to give their life to something they can not prove. And to hear you wasted your life, and what you believe to be true is in fact not, upsets/pisses a person off.
I am not saying their should not be any religion. It is a very well working and constructed coping technique for understanding death and the meaning of our consciousness.
In the case of Noahs ark I think it is funny how people can say the “Object” in the picture or what people “have seen” is Noahs Ark. I feel that until the “Object” is no longer “Hidden” in the mountain people should not jump to conclusions on what it is. Coincidences are not rare.
A true believer would believe if they found something like that. It’s obviously all true. There is a God. No athiest is going to ruin my relationship with the good Lord! I always knew he was real no matter that yall say!!!!!!!!!!
God Is REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMEN JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lisa;
The situation you are lamenting about those who are told what they believe is wrong is actually human nature, not religion. No one likes to be contradicted on what they believe, even athiests. Only those who are firm in their “Faith” are not offendced by those who contradict them.
One thing we agree on is that one should not jump to conclusions based on some evidence. I am entirely willing to wait and see if the Chinese expiditon can lead an independant group to their find and see what they have to say. As far as the Flood itself, there is plenty enough evidence for a thinking person to believe in it, as I have stipulated.
Carl,
Well concerning the first portion of your post, I would have to say that history shows I am correct. I do not feel that explaining how and why wars and fighting between nations would happen int he past…and even some places today.
As for the second half of your post, saying “As far as the Flood itself, there is plenty enough evidence for a thinking person to believe in it” is telling me that because I do not see what you say is evidence, and that I do not think the world wide flood depicted in the bible is true, you are saying that I am a non thinking person. So you are being quite aggressive in trying to make someone who does not believe what you do feel oppressed because their beliefs are different than yours. How and why should I or anyone else who thinks similarly to myself not be offended by what you have said?
Lisa;
History does not show you are correct. All conflict comes from the simple proposition that 2 groups (or even people) want the same thing, and only one can have it. So they fight for it.
Now, I have already stated that there have been some (and still are) that will use religion to justify their wicked deeds, but it is the fault of the people involved and their own greed, not the religion.
The goes particularly for the Christian religion. Those who prostitute it to justify doing evil are doing so against the very precepts of the religion they profess. In all cases. So, when they are not obeying the religion, it is false to blame the religion.
On the second point, the only way you could possibly have taken it as an isult against you or those who disagree with me is to either be illiterate, or to twist what I said to make it say something I did not say. I made absolutely no statement for those who disagree with me, and since you are literate, then I have to believe you deliberately twisted what I said because you can not or will not commit to an intelligent discussion of the evindence.
If you persist, then I can only conclude that your anti religious bias prevents you from intelligent discussion.
Carl
Having said that, I ask you, can you set aside your anti religious comments and word tricks, and discuss the evidence?
If you really are a thinking person, then it should be easy.
Car;
Having said that, I ask you, can you set aside your anti religious comments and word tricks, and discuss the evidence?
If you really are a thinking person, then it should be easy.
Carl
I did not twist your words, and what you are saying is evidence I do not see as evidence. Therefore, I cannot in anyway discuss this so called “Evidence” you keep talking about with you. I see your “evidence” as something a “thinking” person would see as illogical.
Lisa;
Yes, you did twist what I said. You forced what I said into something I did not say, and then you rebuked me for it. This is a very popular, but very dishonest method of debate, and I am calling you on it.
As far as discussing the evidence, can’t you even discuss why you think it is not evidence? I am giving you the opportunity, but you seem to only be interested in pushing your anti-religious bias.
I have put forward several lines of evidence, and you have only commented on one of them, while you have written hundreds of words of why you are against religion. I think I was right, your bias prevents you from intelligent discussion on the subject.
If I am not right, then prove it.
Carl,
I have indeed looked at things through the perspectives you are offering and I have discussed with others the “evidence” you are bringing and have come to the conclusion that it is indeed not evidence.
But more importantly why should I be the only one to change my perspective? Why will you not do the same thing you are asking and try to understand things from the perspective of people who do not think or believe in what you do? I have looked at the world from the perspectives of others beliefs many times, with many people (even while being in different countries) and through the many University classes I have taken that talk about the subject of religion. This is why I find that I do not wish to regress and look through things I have already looked through several times with several people.
You on the other hand tell me I have a Bias…well I find that a bit hypocritical. I think you are so sure of your perspective on how things are that you bring in a large bias. You never entertain the idea that what is in the pictures is not the ark. Nor do you look at the overwhelming evidence against it. That is right, you see the evidence you have shown is easily rebutted by anyone who has done research on ancient civilizations, and mythology. So I ask again why can you not even do what you are so “proudly” claiming I am not?
Lisa;
First off, you do not listen (read) very well. I have often said in this blog that I do not believe that the Ark has survived to this time.
Secondly, you still have not admitted that you twisted my statement to make it say something it did not, and then rebuked me for it. You are not even honest enough to admit it.
Thirdly, just because you and some of your friends say something is not evidence means only that you are not willing to discuss things that might challenge the way you believe. For some reason you can not, or will not, have an open discussion.
Forthly, I admit to being biased. Yet I am willing to bring evidence and thought to a discussion, instead of ranting about why I am against something (off topic to boot) like you do consistently.
Fithly, I am willing to have an open discussion and debate with you. I have invited you to do so many times, but you refuse. You would rather push your anti religious bias instead.
I say again, if you really are a thinking person, then prove it. Give me some intelligent discussion instead of lofty pronouncements.
One last thing.
Just because I am not letting you get away with your lack of honest and intelligent discussion does not mean I am unwilling to listen. I am willing, but I need something to listen to. I am begging you to supply it.
Carl,
Well after searching through this enormous list of posts I see that you have said more than I have read from you. So I give you that and am sorry…but honestly there are a lot of posts on here. Also I will not say I twisted your words around because I did not.
Finally, I will explain myself and what I have said giving you all of my evidence and previous teachings as well as discussions etc for my next post; as well as explaining why I was not twisting your words around.
As this explanation will be some what of a project since I need to pull out all of the evidence and research I have done to swift through it as well as read all of your postings on this page. I will not have my entire perspective with reasonings ready for a bit.
i can understand how we have different perspectives and have learned and researched different things and therefore when we bring things up we do not see eye to eye.
Be patient and you will get the discussion you want…But I am not saying that any of my previous posts have been of the “non thinking” (lol) kind…but to you they could appear that way since it is obvious you do not know, or have not researched the things I have, and I could say vice versa…
Lisa;
I look forward to your discussion.
Carl
Lias;
Before we begin our discussion, I would like to make a couple of statements.
Let us stay on topic. That topic being, “Was there a World Wide Flood in the past that almost wiped out mankind?” Since I do not denigrate athiests in my statements, I ask you to leave off the anti-religious rhetoric.
Let’s keep it fairly simple. Let us not write pages and pages of words about many topics at once, but try to take it in little bites. Let us not try to prove out entire case in one posting.
On the subject of whether you twisted my words or not. I will grant you may have misunderstood me at the moment, but there is no way any reasoning person could accuse me of what you did by what I actually said.
If I had said, “There is so much evidence for the Flood that a thinking person could ONLY believe in the Flood.”, you would have a case. I did not say this or anything like it. My point was that a there is enough evidence for such a flood that a thinking person COULD believe in the Flood. There was absolutley no statement about those I disagree with, and you were incorrect in stating that there was.
Looking forward to our discussion.
Carl
Carl,
Please stop telling me how to do things. You do not have any authority over how I am going to respond. I can agree with staying on the topic of the flood. But since you criticized me for not responding to your previous posts that is exactly what I am going to do. If you truly want to have in intellectual conversation about this, reading a report on the evidence I have which goes over and through what you have talked about should be delightful for you.
In any case do not sit there and tell me what I can and can not write about. I find that quite irritating and demeaning, and will not tolerate it.
Lisa;
I apologise. I can see why you saw my message as telling you what to write about. It was not my intention that it came out that way, but it did. I am sorry.
My intention was not to tell you what to write and not write, but to respectfully request that you refrain rom a specific item, being your anti- religious rhetoric.
While you are very quick to take offense at me (this time I deserved some of it), I don’t think you realize how offensive and demeaning you have been. Many, many times. Instead of chewing you out for it, I am merely asking you to curb it.
So, please forgive me, and please consider my request.
Again, I am looking forward to hearing from you.
Carl
i just think its impossible to discuss Noah’s Ark without involving Bible and if bible’s involved so will religion.i usually research on all sorts of stuff to find answers but more i look the more i feel lost. every thing is linked to each other,there’s always the need to look further back in time to find origins of it all but we as Humans do not know,every thing is based on assumptions,and theories.Religion is a good thing if u understand it.There may be numerous religions but the message is always the same…Noah’s Ark is a very old story.There are many versions,its not a Christian story nor any of other religions that exist today.Yeung is not the first person to claim to have found the ark; in fact Noah’s Ark has been “discovered” at least a half-dozen times in the past 50 years.The thing is that it does not need to be found or discovered.
Yes, you can discuss Noah’s ark without getting religious. Just like you can discuss Herrod, Saesar, etc without getting religious. These characters appear elsewhere in history. The problem is I think most Christians get ALL their history from the bible and stop right there. Kind of like back when Cecil B DeMille did the movie, The 10 Commandments, for a long time, people thought it was a documentary and was a verbatim story of the history of Moses… only later did folks finally recall that it was just one movie company’s dramatic interpretation of a set of stories.
It is fine to ci9te the referenes in the bible to coroborate things when discussing academic views of history, but it is not fair in the academic pursuit of ultimate fact, to use it as the rock of gibralter on truth. Even the most elevated church scholars will tell you the bible is a set of stories, not a line by line year by year diary of fact. It is the meaning one gets personally from it that makes it significant, not its alleged infallability.
Some day, when they discover a 50,000 year old spaceship stuck in a glacier, you can bet the bible crew will be there to declare ir Ezekiel’s chariot…
Earthling;
I have tried very hard not to present the Bible as a proof text, or even to bring it up unless someone else makes a comment first.
There are pleanty of references to the Flood in other religions, literature, geology, archeology, and other sciences to hold a discussion on the subject.
Besides, what is wrong with using the Bible as a reference point. You do not have to believe it to do so. Just acknowlege that it say’s something on the subject and then discuss it.
As Greg said, the Bible is a collection of stories. It is not a history book. It’s message is about the relationship between God and Mankind. However, when it has been possible to check what the Bible relates to in history it has proven to be amazingly accurate. As the discoveries of the Hittite civilization, the city of Nineva, and the cities of Sodom and Gommorrah demonstrate.
If people would get over their problem with the Bible being a religious book they would find it to be a treasure trove of information on ancient peoples, how they lived, and how they thought. It is also very fine literature. It has also had a very substantial and positive impact on civilization.
Carl,
Relating to your last post only (it will be a while before I have the time to do all of the research it will take to show you my perspective on our previous discussions) I would like to say the bible has also had a tremendous negative effect on the many cultures that were over taken by the conquistadors and told that that book was right and their perspectives were wrong. And how the book from a perspective destroys the beliefs of others. I will say that to a lot of people that the book is a positive thing but I must mention all of those who have suffered because of its teachings. Like the Native Indians for instance. The reason they were enslaved by Columbus and his men was due to the fact that they were viewed as animals because they were different in their life styles and so forth, and in the bible it states that animals are here for man to do with as he wishes. I have received this information from a book which has the diaries or writings of those who were there with Columbus. Of course this is only one example. I will try to find the name of the book for you if you are interested. Also something that is very interesting to read is an article by Jack T. Forbes called Columbus and Other Cannibals. Very interesting article on oppression and why and how it has been used throughout history.
Lisa;
It may surprize you to know that you are not telling me anything I do not already know. It may surprize you even more that I agree with you that the conquistodors and Columbus acted the way you say, and tried to justify what they did with the Bible. I completely acknowlege the truth of what you have related from the books you mentioned.
Yes, it was the truth. The problem is that it is not all of the truth. If these authors had done even a simple (but honest) evalutaion of what Jesus and the Apostles taught then they would have had to acknowlege that the these people you mention were acting in violation of the Bible, no matter their silly attempts to justify their actions.
The actions you mention were, however, in line with the Inquisition, from where these people received their inspiration.
The Inquisitors were a group of men who achieved postions of authority in the Church, and then abused that athority to achieve postions of power and afluence. They murdered tens of millions of Catholics in their push for dominations.
These corrupt leaders set up a situation where they would accuse, or receive an accusation of heresy, paganism, or witchcraft of an individual, then imprison them, have them tortured, sieze their property, and finally execute the accused. And yes, they claimed devine authority and the Bible to justify there evil deeds. The Conquistadors and Columbus received their ideas of how to treat pagans (the natives of North America) from the Inquisitors.
The Inquisitors did one other thing. They suppressed knowlege of the Bible, and insured that it was not available to the common man. They did this dileberately, and methodically. It helped their cause that copies of the Bible were hand written, and thus very rare and expensive.
Men like Martin Luther (who was part of the preisthood) started to read the Bible for themselves. When they did so it exposed the Inquisition for the frauds they were. Martin Luther and his crowd started protesting (hence the name “Protestent”) and started to threaten the Inquisition’s hold on power and afluence, so the Inquisition went to war with them. Like I said, many millions of Catholics were murdered by the Inquisition.
When the Guttenburg Press was invented, and people like Wycliff and Tyndale started to translate the Latin Bible into the language of the people the Inquisition opposed them with everything they had. When the Bible was finally accessable to all people is when the power of the Inquisition was destroyed.
So, contrary to what you have read, the Bible was not the problem, but getting the Bible into the hands of the people was the solution to the problem.
Like I said earlier, what you read in those books was the truth, just not all of the truth. A partial truth is more insidious and dangerous than any outright lie. It pulls good meaning people like you into the deception.
IF these authors did indeed give you just part of the truth, then you have been misled, taken advantage of, and intellectually raped. As have many thousands of others.
By the way, if you want to know the full extent of the abominations of the Inquisition, then read Foxe’s Book of Christian Martyrs. I would not recommend reading it though if you have a weak stomach.
I did some additonal checking of the facts, and in the spirit of honesty and truth I have to make an addition to my last post.
In the case of Martin Luther tbere was a man who used Luthers teachings to inspire a peasant’s war, in favor of the Protestants.
However, Luther preached against this war. He correctly called it a violation of the Bible.
Carl
Just as God brought the animals to Noah by some form of supernatural means, He surely also prepared them for this amazing event. Creation scientists suggest that God gave the animals the ability to hibernate, as we see in many species today. Most animals react to natural disasters in ways that were designed to help them survive. It’s very possible many animals did hibernate, perhaps even supernaturally intensified by God.
Whether it was supernatural or simply a normal response to the darkness and confinement of a rocking ship, the fact that God told Noah to build rooms (“qen”—literally in Hebrew “nests”) in Genesis 6:14 implies that the animals were subdued or nesting. God also told Noah to take food for them (Genesis 6:21), which tells us that they were not in a year-long coma either.
Were we able to walk through the Ark as it was being built, we would undoubtedly be amazed at the ingenious systems on board for water and food storage and distribution. As Woodmorappe explains in Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study, a small group of farmers today can raise thousands of cattle and other animals in a very small space. One can easily imagine all kinds of devices on the Ark that would have enabled a small number of people to feed and care for the animals, from watering to waste removal.
As Woodmorappe points out, no special devices were needed for eight people to care for 16,000 animals. But if they existed, how would these devices be powered? There are all sorts of possibilities. How about a plumbing system for gravity-fed drinking water, a ventilation system driven by wind or wave motion, or hoppers that dispense grain as the animals eat it? None of these require higher technology than what we know existed in ancient cultures. And yet these cultures were likely well-short of the skill and capability of Noah and the pre-Flood world.
I guess we will find out when we die.
PLease see . More info here
http://www.mountainararat.com/
Thanks.
God bless for those who believe in Christ.
for those unbelievers, there will be no flood to come, after the flood, fire will follow which is the Eternal torment(hell) where unbelievers will be cast out forever. Think of it.. Love Christ and believe in him. All things are possible in Christ :)
Here’s a theory.
Human kind was created by aliens, Mary was artificially inseminated (as was Noah’s mother), and all religion is a lie!
Hey, the Bible clearly talks about UFO’s and aliens getting jiggy with voluptuous Earth girls…
Don’t believe me?
I would!
Still don’t believe me… each to his own. I am just putting word to thought. Nibiro, man’s fascination and obsession with Orion. The fact that there is no way that Noah could fit two of each animal, reptile, bird and insect on a boat with enough food and water to last them 40 days… DNA bank. Back then they had no way to describe it.
Atlantis? A circular city that just vanishes? Bull, UFO! History is filled with sightings. The proof is there. People are just too blind, too stupid and too happy-clappy to see!
We are some cosmic science experiment!
And if Noah and his family were the only people left to repopulate the planet, where do all the other races come from? There is no mention in any book of the Bible that God created any other people other than Adam and Eve (Steve) or whatever…. making us a bunch of incestuous buggers!
The bible says the last days will be like the days of noah, great wickedness, selfishness, lovers of pleasure, rather than lovers of God, self seeking etc. let’s have a spiritual awakening, repent from our individual sins and our national sins and get back to God. Jesus is coming again to gather His own. He loves you and died for your sins. See all the floods, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, pestilences, diseases without cure, fires to name a few! The world was set in motion for these things since the fall of man. That’s why Noahs ark was important to preserve the righteous..only 8 people on board were found worthy. Let’s all get back to the bible and worship Jesus the way he deserves to be worshipped and above all seek His kingdom first and His righteousness! There a many in these last days who love god, but God’s will is that none should perish. His original intention is to be with everyone forever in heaven, some are choosing not to go!
I agree with u mike.’many are called but few chosen’.if it were to be an evidence that disproves the bible and lesser prove than these many wuld av believed.concerning what someone said about God being all powerful would not have needed someone to build the ark and that since he was Creator he could have recreated the animals. this is what i say, God can do everything but wouldnt.Christ did not become Mediator of the eternal convenant on a platter of gold he earned it through the sufferings the God of gods had destined for him before time began.God is infinitely more than the greatest imaginers imagines of him.why should He have saved Noah without the ark?did He create him to be useless to Him?less than infinite wisdom would have recreated and saved Noah and his family in some other inexplicable way.continue being faithful to our Lord mike,’none of the wicked will understand’ but ‘he that stands firm to the end will be saved’.
nunca jamas encontraran esa arca de noe la biblia lo indica, solo el Dios verdadero sabe donde se encuentra, ninguna humano lo sabrá
It’s nor real… There is no massive boat. Cramming two of every animal on planer earth is impossible!
I disagree – I can cram 12 of every spieces on the planet (including sub-species) into a suitcase as carry-on luggage. Your inability to see this is based upon your belief that science is linear and not parallel. You do not know what tools were at the disposal of the parties in question at the time the story was generated. A leap of faith is no more than a step into your own garden. The “rabbit hole” is a universal filter to keep the big egos out of the funnel of knowledge. Make yourself small and the rest is easy.
Happy Holidays!
Greg
P.S. Science and God are NOT mutually exclusive in a VIN diagram….
Johan;
The Bible never said 2 of every animal. It said 2 of every kind of animal, and was limited to only those kinds that would not have survived outside of the Ark. This lowers the actual number of animals carried in the Ark by several orders of magnitude.
If you do not want to believe in Noah’s Flood and the Ark, that is up to you. But, do not base your disbelief on false information that people pull out of context.
Greg, very good insights.
Oh, I do believe that it actally happened, other reliions state it, but the fact that two of every kind of animal (as you said) could fit on a boat is still impossible, unless this boat wasn’t a boat, but a ship that only stored DNA. I mean, the Bible is full of alien encounters (Enoch for instance who traveled the world in a flyin machine). As are most other religious text. The proof is there. The fact that people were stupid back then and believed that every thing was divine and sent from God. Seriously?
Noah was birthed from a virgin…
Can you see where I’m going with this?
You overestimate by far how many animals needed to be on the Ark, and you greatly underestimate how large the Ark was.
And, where did you get the idea that Noah was born of a virgin?
And calling the ancients “stupid” for believing in God (or gods) is only an oppinion, not based on fact.
You do have it right that all religions (and cultures) have a Flood story, though.
Yes, I see where you are going with this, but it is the wrong direction.
Okay, enlighten me. I do admit that the facts I have may be a bit construed as every source I have used say differently. Going from Ancient Alien theory to religious text here.
And it is stated in some religious text that when Noah’s father returned home from heaven only knows where, he had found his wife pregnant. He knew that he could not have been the father and she swears that she had not been with another man as his father and other family members was witness to that. She claimed to have spoken to an angel and fell pregnant as a result. (Once again, variations of this does occure). Unless she got bonked by Michael or Azreal or some other winged messenger of God…
I have read the Bible, I have seen the descriptions of its size and I have read various versions of the story. Some translations specifically say one pair of each animal, bird, reptile and insect.
I don’t believe in miracles, and gathering all these animals (despite the claims on how many there truely was), natural enemies.
I think I get what you are saying (though seeing how fried my mind is after having to work non stop for the past month, I doubt that I do get anything at the moment – and no, I am not stupid!).
Yeah, misread soem of what you wrote… in a sense I do agree with you… but I’ll argue some more tomorrow… right now duty calls and I need to place an order for a thousand copies of some obscure book that I’ve never heard of…
Blessed be
As I understand it, Noah’s wasn’t the firstgreat desaster to hit the planet. Got some real bad news yesterday, so I am not in the mood to argue or defend what I say. I’m just going to go with that…
Just one thought though… If Noah and his family were the only ones on the planet after the flood… every single human being is living an incestuous life with his or her partner…
Johan;
You said that you were not stupid. I hope you do not think that I think you are stupid. I am not one of those people who think that someone is stupid just because they disagree with me. My point was, that you may have been placing your rejection of a concept on the basis of false information.
(Actually, I would far rather have an intelligent discussion with someone I disagree with, than a stupid discussion with someone I agree with.)
About the different accounts of how many animals were taken. The Bible plainly says that only a pair from each kind of animal was taken. This makes far more sense than the reasonable objection to 2 of every animal. I will stick to the Blblical account of this.
Concerning the birth of Noah. I had never heard such that he was born of a virgin. After reading your comments I googled it, and came up with an “Apocraphal” book, the Book of Enoch, which stated that Noah’s father suspected Noah was actually the son of an angel, and not his own. In this account Noah’s father consulted Enoch, who assured him that Noah was not the son of an angel, but his own. If Noah was the son of an angel, it would not have been a virgin birth. Ancient accounts from many religions discuss intercourse between angels (gods) and woman.
I understand about being tired. I have two jobs. One of them is as a part owner of a rock climbing gym. That plus my 40 hour a week job keeps me going.
Carl
Johan;
Yes, the Flood was an early disaster. As a matter of fact, our genome actually records at least one episode where the human species almost became extinct. This event is called a genetic bottleneck, where the population became so small that it limited our genetic diversity. Those who were there called it the Flood. As you stated, all cultures verify this.
As far as the incest statement is concerned, that is only an issue down to first cousins. Yes, the first generation after the flood had to marry first cousins. And it probably did harm our genome. The Bible (and other religions) state that before the Flood people lived a lot longer than they did after the Flood.
As a moral issue, such incest was not an issue until much later than the Flood. Abraham married his half sister.
In any case, whether one believes in the Flood or not, whether he/she believes in Creation or Evolution, the human population was once very small, and such unions were not considered immoral (then ) but were necessary. Not really an argument against the Bliblical story of the Flood.
Johan;
I hope what ever your bad news was has worked out, or will soon. Praying for you.
Carl
About “miracles”. Many say they do not believe in them. Some (trying to debunk belief in God) have gone as far as to say that any person or group who is sufficiently advanced technologically will be seen as doing miraculous things by those who are less advanced. Those who are really primative may call such persons “gods”.
Now, while this is true, it begs the question. We do many things today that would be condisered “miraculous” a couple of hundred years ago. We fly through the air. We send pictures from one place to another by radio waves. We have motion picutes, and do the same with them. We can cure and treat many diseases that were hopeless then. Our chariots have no visible means of locomotion. I could go on for hours.
The point is, that we do perform the miraculous in the eyes of our ancesters. To say that we do not believe in miracles is nonsense.
Now, if an “all powerful”, an “all knowing”, an “all present” and an “eternal” being has revealed Himself to us, it would be perfectly natural to call Him God. The things He does would be miraculous to us, even though to Him they are just His “nature”. Such a Person would fit the bill by His very Nature.
Such a Person would not be “un natural”, or against nature. He would be above our concept of nature, or “super natural”.
Hey Carl…
Good arguement, and I have to admit, I have done a little more research and you are correct. What does bother me about all of this though, Noah’s birth. When “God” told him to build this arc, he said that he was the only one among the people of earth that was pure. The fact that Noah’s father wasn’t around when Noah was conceived (I could be wrong, I’ve read four different accounts of that story) is a bit of a bother.
Totally unrelated, Enoch travelled the world in his flying machine… I think it is mentioned in the book of Enoch in the Gnostic text.
Advanced technology for that day and age. Then again, with all the crap I’ve been reading, I’m surprised that I can make sense of anything…
Regarding my bad news… sadly it is turning out for the worse and we are finding it hard to deal with it. Thank you for the prayers… I do believe that every bit helps.
Have a blessed day.
Johan;
Sorry to hear of your bad time. May God’s Peace and Grace be with you and your family.
About Noah. Obviously many ancients wrote about him. He was a “hero” of the Human Race. It would not be the first time that stories about our hero’s were embelished.
I do not say this to put down the ancients. The fact that there are so many sources (some using different names for the same individual) is good evidence of the events told. Whether everything that was written is totally reliable or not.
However, the Bible does not say that Noah was “pure”. It doesn’t even say he was particularly good. What it does say is that “Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord”. It also implies that Noah was the only person on the Earth that believed what God said about destroying the Earth, and built a boat (as he was instructed). His belief in action is what saved his life, and the lives of his 3 sons and their wives.
Now, this Saving Grace is exactly the same thing in the New Testament, where we are told that “…We are saved by Grace, through Faith, not works.” God in His Grace has offered us Salvation in His Son, and we are saved if we believe Him in this matter. Both the story of the Flood, and the story of Salvation are logically consistent with each other.
About Enoch and his flying machine. I am having trouble finding any reference to it. For the sake of argument, I will assume that maybe Enoch did fly around the world as you have mentioned. The Bible tells us that “Enoch walked with God…”
Apparently Enoch had a special relationship with God, different from most humans. He litterally “walked” with God as two friends do. The Bible goes on to say that “…and Enoch was not, for God took him.” Could it be that God physically took him around, and eventually took him to Heaven? To say that Enoch flew in a machine is a modern interpretation, not necessarily what really happened.
However, I have no problem believing that ancient man might have been far more sophisticated and knowlegeble than modern man gives him credit for. Whether Enoch had a flying machine or simply walked with God.
Carl
ahahaha “you just need to believe in God” you are all sheep! OPEN YOUR EYES! it’s GARBAGE! a FAIRY TALE! is it not incredible we all share the same religion with our parents for the most part? and that it’s always the “right” one? this story is IMPOSSIBLE and to say “god did it” is a cop out and makes you look completely pathetic to anyone with a half decent education and a mind eager to learn the truth. stop being a follower. open up a textbook and read some REAL proof. little man in the sky isn’t making you look very intelligent. go fap to it why don’t you. fuck.
So, not being able to give an intelligent answer, you rely on insult and scoffing. That’s real intelligent.
all you nonbilevers go to **** you Mother******* you need to belive
Cursing some one for their unbelief is just as intelectually dishonest as those who scoff at those who believe. It is also against the commands of Christ, so I challenge the idea that you are actually a believer. It is more likely that you are a non-believer who is using this technique to make believers look foolish. As Jesus said, “You will know them by their fruits.”
I have a question.
On this blog alone there have been many attempts to discredit the idea of Noah’s Flood by simple scoffing and insulting those who believe in it. There have been a few attempts to disprove the idea of the Flood by bringing up logical objections, and these have all been answered reasonbably, and by logically looking at the conditions of the objections. There have been at least 2 who have pretended to believe, but who have acted in a manner that is not consistent with their implied belief in God (they lied).
The question is this; If the idea of Noah’s Flood is wrong, then why can’t anyone bring up a logical, intelligent argument against it?
Hi Carl and Friends:
Great question. I think the answer is like the Elephant in the room that nobody wants to admit being there:
Part 1; One cannot prove a negative (something that IS NOT), only something that IS, by evidence (the absence of evidence does not prove something IS NOT)
Part 2; We men are limited to 2 forms of information (not necessarily evidence); they are: a. what we can personally witness with our senses and b. what others have testified to having witnessed. Unlike a fine wine, the older the written information, the longer it has the opportunty for people in the middle with alternate agendas to translate, tweak and technically corrupt the data. Hence, we tend in law to do our best to follow age old precepts BUT give more weight to recent cases – if this were not so, appellate and supreme court decisions would be static and no changes, however small, would ever be made.
Absent first hand knowledge AND proof that the interpretation of the evidence is accurate and not the result of an accidental/intentional misunderstanding, any conclusion arrived upon is based on a person’s belief that the information provided MOST LIKELY means what they say. In other words – there is no conclusive proof of anything anywhere in the universe – God has played his biggest joke on us giving us just enough perception to know things are there – but not enough perception to know why! Gotta love His humor….. ;-)
Sometime we have to just be wise and humble enough to let “The Play” proceed and simply find out what role our character is supposed to be playing. To the spiritually minded, that would be considered making one’s self available to to God’s Work; to the agnostic or atheist, it would mean surrendering a bit of selfpower to the good of mankind and the universe. From my perspective – BOTH ARE GOOD.
Best!
Greg
Niektóre panele wyglądają jak odrębne deski, czyli bardzo naturalnie.
This page definitely has all the info I needed about this subject and didn’t know who to ask.
I haven’t been here for a few years now, but it looks as if the same things being said then are still being said now….Every religion including Darwinism or evolution theory, or science even, is ruled by a belief which comes from a story or knowledge that has been written down. The reason that older forms of religion are so hard for some people to believe in is that it lacks evidence, I’m sorry let me be more straight forward, they lack CLEAR SOLID EVIDENCE. And those who believe see their mythological text, like the bible or the koran, as a history book of real events.
The conflict arises when different parts of the world have different accounts of history. Which makes sense because at the time those texts were written the known world to the people was the small world that surrounded them. They lacked the global knowledge we have today.
Each culture, in order to survive evolved to instinctively need religion to bring each other together in a community, or tribe if you will.
Although I do not agree with the last thousand years of religious warfare and the conflict it brings, I do believe that the creation of religion was a necessity for the survival of the human race. AND, now that we have come into a new age of enlightenment, or if you need, understanding of the way the things around us work, our ideologies need to progress past the barbaric form of understanding how the world works. We NO LONGER need the belief of a god to explain why we have a drought, why we see streaks of light in the night sky, why the sun comes up each day, or why we see these crazy natural disasters such as tornadoes, hurricanes….all of the above used to be viewed as the force of the god or gods.
NOW that we have gone through a new period of enlightenment we know they are not, and we understand why and what they are.
We need to embrace the next stage of humanity, and progress into a new era. Ancient mythologies are no longer needed for our survival. With the way our planet is vastly changing we need to stop the quarrels over belief and move forward to survive the next big thing to come.
We have evolved to use preventive measures against forces we once thought we were helpless against.
Now more then ever is when we need to take our ability to use our intellect and work together on a global scale regardless of the past to provide the survival of our species.
Glad you are back.
The facts. Seems like it is hard to keep people centered on the facts. Let us try again.
1. This world has been deeply scarred by water. Where ever you look, there is erosion to an extreme, even to the point of wearing down mountain chains.
There are two ways of explaining this fact.
a) Over billions of years, water has worn away and reworked the entire surface of the earth.
b) A world wide Flood accounts for this reworking. An intense period of erosion.
I have no problem believing that after billions of years the earth would look like it does due to water. Even if this did happen, after a world wide flood took place the Earth would still look like it does. To put it another way, after the flood the world would still look the way it does after billions of years of erosion (before the Flood).
2. That mankind went through some type of near extinction level event is very apparent in our genetics. Called “genetic bottlenecks”. A relatively large population of human beings suddenly dropped to relatively few, which has limited our genetic diversity.
3. Almost every culture has a story relating a world wide flood that very nearly wiped out mankind. Those who were there witnessed it, and it is very much involved in our racial memory.
You mentioned the differences in our various histories of the event. Since this proven extinction level event would have left only a few people, the stories their descendants relate are not due to a different accounting of the event, but are due to these people separating from each other and retelling the stories in view of their own personalities.
You may have noticed that I have not used my Faith as a basis for validating the fact of the Flood. Although I am a Christian, I do not need to use the argument, “because the Bible say’s so.” The facts can speak for themselves.
Lisa;
I am making a separate post about your comments on religion. I want to keep this part separate from the discussion of the evidence and facts pertaining to the Flood.
“Religion” never has been a good thing for mankind, nor a good survival strategy.
The problem with “religion” is that it is mankind’s effort to make themselves acceptable to God. A way of saying to God, “Hey,look at me. I am righteous and holy. I am acceptable to you.”
“Religion” often (but not always) involves rules, regulation, and ceremonies to enforce this statement.
This is the source of the conflict you mention. Not the belief in God, but the belief that one is good enough, but others are not good enough. In the mind of “religious” people, those who are not good enough, the infidel or unbeliever, deserves to be punished, and killed. The spoils of war that the “religious” person gets are his reward (in his mind).
“Religion” is just an extension of the evil that is in mankind. Paul put it nicely when he wrote, “Although they knew Him, they did not honor Him as God, but worshipped the created things instead.”
The modern philosophy of “Naturalism”, upon which your arguments have been based (whether you realise it or not) is simply the same thing as “religion”. Not only do you not honor the Creator, but you call ignorant anyone who would.
“Faith” on the other hand is believing that God has done what is necessary to reconcile mankind unto Himself. It is God reaching down to mankind, and touching them. In other words, I am not worthy, God is. Sincre I am not worthy, I have no place punishing those who reject God. That is up to Him alone.
“Faith” has been active since the beginning. Most have chosen to be “religious” instead.
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Actually, the proposition is an easy one. Either the Great Flood happened, or it did not.
Every single objection to the Flood that has been presented on this forum has been based on making the Bible say something it does not, and then objecting to it. Falsifying a statement, and then proving the falsification wrong is NOT science, nor is it scientific.
I have presented two powerful evidence’s (I did not say “proofs”) that the Flood did happen. They are;
1. Our genetics proves that at some time in the past our species was almost wiped out by some event.
2. That almost every culture has a story about how the human race was almost wiped out by a world wide flood.
Putting these two facts together, I have stated that it is true that we were almost wiped out, and that the witnesses to the event called it a world wide flood.
What can be simpler than that.
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The Ark is most probably not on Mount Ararat, because the Bible mentions that it had landed on the mountainS of Ararat, i.e. mountains in the land of Ararat which is a proto-Armenian land of Urartu.
You gotta be kidding me.
The flood wasn´t a myth. The water covered all mountains, people think that all mountains in the world were the same as in the beginnig, but this is wrong. Before the flood, the mountains were more smaller, so the water covered them easy. The ark was made in a way to have all animals that can carry. Where the ark landed? we still don´t know, but Turkey is the best place to look, in the old Urartu kingdom, we have to look for mountains, high mountains.
While I believe that Noah’s Flood happened, I am dubius of the theory that the mountains were not as high then as they are now. Yes, in the KJV it sounds like the passage says that they mountains were only about 20 cubits high. Other translations sound like the flood was 20 cubits over the hightest mountain. There is a lot of physical evidence that the mountains then were as high as they are now. I think another explanation is in order.
tectonic plate action and continental upheavals are always a historical unknown
Hi Greg;
You are right, and the further back in time one goes, the more is unknown.
I just have a problem using a theory that is based on a questionable translation without evidence to back it up.
Hello, I have a question to those who believe in Noah’s ark. I live in New Zealand and we have some unique animals here, take for example the Kiwi, a flightless bird not found anywhere else in the world. Can you explain how Noah managed to get the Kiwi on the ark all the way from New Zealand and then after the flood, how he managed to return it back to New Zealand.? Will await your theory with interest.
It is a common mistake to think that 2 of every species of animals were on the Ark. This would not be necessary. Instead , a few of every kind of animal (that could not survive outside of the Ark) would be all that is needed. This greatly reduces the amount of animals required.
I highly doubt that the Kiwi (and other unique animals of your isolated local) were aboard the Ark. Instead, I believe that the first animals that made it to your local, then evolved in isolation, taking on new characteristics over time. Thus, the Kiwi, while still a bird became flightless. Also, remember that there are several types of flightless birds around the world.
Remember Darwin’s finches of the Galopagos Islands. Same thing.
further…. the jury is still out as to whether the flood was actually a global event or an event more localized to Noah’s neighborhood… which in those times sure would have felt like and been perceived as “the world”… since not much global travel was being done…
perhaps all Noah’s duties involved were looking after his own locale and maybe other cultures in other locales had their own “hero”… or maybe just enough high-ground to not need a boat?
plate tectonics being what they are; the earth always seems to find equilibrium; when one plate subducts; another is thrust up; “a 3D teeter-totter” if you will… and often affects are seen 180 degrees on the other side of the earth; as the earth seems to wiggle itself back to a balanced comfort level “within its skin”; each time there is an “event”
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maybe you guys just can’t see the delusions in your arguments cos its quite plain to see really
Another fine example of scoffers whose arguments are so weak, they are not able to use intelligent discussion, so they have to resort to insult.
If one has to use insults to keep their own position, they should rethink their postition.
so your intelligent argument, Kiwi’s evolved from some generic type bird and only in 5000 – 1000 years – why would or could anyone believe that
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Actually, the type of changes to go from a bird to one that does not fly does not need to take millions, or even thousands of years. And, I never limited the timing of the Flood to 5-10 thousand years anyways.
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90% of the wild animals can only be found in Australia how did Noah get all those unique animals to cross the oceans then hang out in his boat and then return to Australia without any of them remaining in the middle east and surrounding areas? And where did all flood water go?
Meant to say that 90% of all the wild animals in Australia can only be found in Australia.